Comments on: Stetson Allie vs Nick Kingham http://www.piratesprospects.com/2011/09/stetson-allie-vs-nick-kingham.html Your best source for news on the Pittsburgh Pirates and their minor league system. Mon, 02 Jun 2014 10:10:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.8.3 By: John Franco http://www.piratesprospects.com/2011/09/stetson-allie-vs-nick-kingham.html#comment-9338 Fri, 16 Sep 2011 18:57:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=19798#comment-9338 For now I think I still believe in Allie’s stuff. 94-95 with a plus slider will work, definitely out of the ‘pen if he doesn’t make it as a starter. But he needs to figure out the command without losing any more velocity. If he’s 90-92 and suddenly throwing strikes, I’m not sure he’ll be as good as Kingham is now.

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By: Magic J http://www.piratesprospects.com/2011/09/stetson-allie-vs-nick-kingham.html#comment-9288 Mon, 12 Sep 2011 19:36:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=19798#comment-9288 I do agree that players need to be evaluated for the long term based not only on results but also on potential.  It’s too early to write them off but if I had to I would venture that neither player gets more than a cup of coffee in the bigs.  In order to be a ML pitcher you have to throw strikes and Allie hasn’t proven that he is able to do so.  What I am seeing is a mirror image of former Dodger 1st round draft pick Bill Bene.  Bene had a similarly overpowering repertoire but he could never harness his control issues and toiled in the minors for 9 seasons before hanging it up.  It is encouraging that when Allie is around the plate he has been difficult to hit…  However, he has lost 5 mph in an attempt to focus on command and he still is challenged.  So… not only do you have a control aversion, but scaled down velocity as well.  As far as Kingham his strikeout numbers for short season A ball strike me as less than adequate.  The real talent and the guy that is an open shut future top of the rotation pitcher will be Jameson Taillon.  I hope Allie can put it together, but I really doubt miracles will happen.  Universally baseball scouts will agree that control is the most tangible skill a pitcher needs and that it is very difficult to teach.   

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By: Ian Rothermund http://www.piratesprospects.com/2011/09/stetson-allie-vs-nick-kingham.html#comment-9281 Mon, 12 Sep 2011 05:27:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=19798#comment-9281 While I’m aware of the age discrepancy these two guys share, I just can’t help but think of how Allie has only been a regular pitcher for the last few years.  I agree with you that, at this point in time, Kingham should rate higher as a prospect.  However, with Allie’s stuff, if he can put it together, he has the chance of going from a #10 prospect in the organization to a 3 or a 4 within a year, maybe even a couple months.  Whereas Kingham will always be limited in his “prospect” status by his stuff, or lack thereof.  If Kingham makes it to the show, he’ll still only rated as an 8 or 9 leading up to that start. 

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By: Anonymous http://www.piratesprospects.com/2011/09/stetson-allie-vs-nick-kingham.html#comment-9273 Sun, 11 Sep 2011 16:18:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=19798#comment-9273 As the only one of the five of us who ranked Kingham ahead of Allie (I’m the 5th dentist out of 5 that doesn’t recommend that one type of toothpaste), here’s my reasoning.

First, Kingham is no slouch himself as a pitcher.  He sits low 90′s and has 2 working (not plus) offspeed pitches.  He has a pedigree on his own as a draft pick.

Second, Kingham pitched well and Allie did not.  This is way oversimplfying this, but Kingham did his thing at the Fastball Academy and Allie did not.

Third, Allie himself has said in the past that he would prefer to be a closer.  Not saying that he isn’t cut out for starting, but the player himself thinks he is more geared to being a closer.

Fourth, it seems as if Kingham projects as a starter and Allie projects as a reliever TO ME, so I’m going to rank them in my mind accordingly.

Fifth, Allie has always reminded me of Colt Griffin (erstwhile Royals draft pick from earlier in the decade) as a player with great “stuff” but no control of it.

And sixth, finally, Allie was an older draftee in 2010 (drafted in his age-19 season).  In 2012, he will play as a 21 year old in Low A.  That’s the high end of the scale for a true prospect in Low A, while Kingham will be 20 years old.

My ranking style blends performance AND potential.  I always think “What is this player’s ceiling?” and “How likely is this player going to reach that ceiling?”.  Allie’s 2011 casts doubt for me on the 2nd question.

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By: Anonymous http://www.piratesprospects.com/2011/09/stetson-allie-vs-nick-kingham.html#comment-9272 Sun, 11 Sep 2011 16:10:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=19798#comment-9272 Kingham definitely, Allie should go from a developmental curve standpoint but it depends on his offseason and spring training.

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By: Ian Rothermund http://www.piratesprospects.com/2011/09/stetson-allie-vs-nick-kingham.html#comment-9270 Sun, 11 Sep 2011 15:21:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=19798#comment-9270 If you’ve seen Allie’s results from the end of the season, I’m not sure you would be saying that.  In his last 7 appearances, he only gave up 2 earned runs over 6.1.  That was nearly a quarter of the season.  I think that’s a very convincing argument that he progressed over what he started as at the beginning of the season.  I think that, along with his raw ability, his raw stuff puts him over Kingham.  How many righties are there out there that throw high 80′s – low 90′s with average secondary pitches.  Oh wait, that’s Josh Fogg and Ian Snell, after he forgot how to throw hard.  Not that Kingham doesn’t deserve the respect of a season well played, I just see him as a guy that won’t be a top 10 prospect type until he’s transitioning to AA, like a McPherson. 

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By: Lee Young http://www.piratesprospects.com/2011/09/stetson-allie-vs-nick-kingham.html#comment-9262 Sun, 11 Sep 2011 12:40:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=19798#comment-9262 Tim…..to me, here’s the key comment “Kingham is basically what we want Zack Von Rosenberg to become. ”

High praise indeed.

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By: John DiVito http://www.piratesprospects.com/2011/09/stetson-allie-vs-nick-kingham.html#comment-9259 Sun, 11 Sep 2011 11:58:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=19798#comment-9259 Do you think both guys move to West Virginia next season?

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By: Anonymous http://www.piratesprospects.com/2011/09/stetson-allie-vs-nick-kingham.html#comment-9255 Sun, 11 Sep 2011 02:02:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=19798#comment-9255 Allie is going to have to get someone out at
some point. For now it’s Nickie.

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