Comments on: Pirates Agree to Terms With Clint Barmes http://www.piratesprospects.com/2011/11/pirates-agree-to-terms-with-clint-barmes.html Your best source for news on the Pittsburgh Pirates and their minor league system. Sat, 26 Jul 2014 04:57:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.9.1 By: Todd Smith http://www.piratesprospects.com/2011/11/pirates-agree-to-terms-with-clint-barmes.html#comment-10804 Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:22:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=21733#comment-10804 I’d much rather have Barmes at 2 years and $10 million than a Jimmy Rollins for 5 years and $65 million – which is about what the Pirates would have to offer for him to consider it.  And what do you get?  Maybe an extra 20 points in OPS and a downgrade defensively from Barmes?  Rollins has averaged a .716 OPS over the past three seasons.  Barmes has averaged a .696 OPS over the past 3 seasons.  But Rollins is a bigger name and more expensive, so it would have meant the Pirates were REALLY trying to win?  Blah.

Going out and signing a “top” free agent name isn’t always a blueprint for success.  It’s just an easy way to placate the fans that don’t know any better.  Just look at the Nationals with Jayson Werth last year.  $18MM per year for 7 years, and he put up pretty much the same numbers at the plate as Lyle Overbay did last year.  Spending more doesn’t fix everything.

]]>
By: Todd Smith http://www.piratesprospects.com/2011/11/pirates-agree-to-terms-with-clint-barmes.html#comment-10803 Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:10:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=21733#comment-10803 I’m still outraged that we didn’t manage to get a couple of top 50 prospects back for Bautista.  I mean, he was coming off that .254/.339/.414 season.  He had huge value.

]]>
By: Todd Smith http://www.piratesprospects.com/2011/11/pirates-agree-to-terms-with-clint-barmes.html#comment-10802 Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:01:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=21733#comment-10802 …and I wouldn’t say Cedeno and Barmes are a wash defensively either.  Cedeno has a -5.1 career UZR at SS.  Barmes has a career 20.8 UZR at SS.  Barmes is a significant improvement.

]]>
By: Todd Smith http://www.piratesprospects.com/2011/11/pirates-agree-to-terms-with-clint-barmes.html#comment-10801 Wed, 23 Nov 2011 18:47:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=21733#comment-10801 Cedeno was a 1.4 WAR player in 2011.  At $3MM for the year, that’s $2.14MM per win.  Barmes was a 3.1 WAR player in 2011.  At $5.25MM for the year, that’s $1.69MM per win.

]]>
By: Todd Smith http://www.piratesprospects.com/2011/11/pirates-agree-to-terms-with-clint-barmes.html#comment-10800 Wed, 23 Nov 2011 18:34:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=21733#comment-10800 So instead of improving the position, you’d rather just ignore the position.  Solid plan.

]]>
By: Tim Williams http://www.piratesprospects.com/2011/11/pirates-agree-to-terms-with-clint-barmes.html#comment-10799 Wed, 23 Nov 2011 17:55:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=21733#comment-10799 Sounds good then.

]]>
By: Anonymous http://www.piratesprospects.com/2011/11/pirates-agree-to-terms-with-clint-barmes.html#comment-10796 Wed, 23 Nov 2011 17:45:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=21733#comment-10796 I agree that we disagree.  I also agree that I am right about Barmes.

]]>
By: Tim Williams http://www.piratesprospects.com/2011/11/pirates-agree-to-terms-with-clint-barmes.html#comment-10776 Wed, 23 Nov 2011 04:01:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=21733#comment-10776 The facts are that Barmes has missed 130 games in his nine year career due to three separate injuries. You think this is a significant amount of time. I think this is pretty standard for any player. I base that on what actual injury prone players have done (Troy Tulowitzki missing 124 games to injury in the last four years, Ryan Doumit missing 195 games in the last four years, Barmes meanwhile missing 52). So I guess we agree to disagree on how significant the past injuries are.

]]>
By: Anonymous http://www.piratesprospects.com/2011/11/pirates-agree-to-terms-with-clint-barmes.html#comment-10775 Wed, 23 Nov 2011 03:49:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=21733#comment-10775 He’s missed significant parts of three seasons, out of nine. That is 33%.

I’ve shown you how he has missed an extraordinary amount of games.  Now, you are trying to argue by extreme, which isn’t how you began this debate.  He has missed a lot of games, now you are trying to hide behind different criteria.  The fact is, that he’s missed an extraordinary amount of games due to injury.  I showed you, by comparison, how this is fact. You can admit that I’m right or simply pretend that the fact are wrong.

When I stated that Barmes is prone to injury, you challenged me to show you.  I did. When I did, you tried to divert the discussion by changing the direction of the discussion.  I’m not going to let you do that.  Barmes does indeed get hurt a lot relative to most players.  

Honestly, I don’t care.  I know that I’m right and that you are hiding behind discussions that I didn’t initiate.  You should simply admit that I am right and move on to the next discussion.

]]>
By: Matt Beam http://www.piratesprospects.com/2011/11/pirates-agree-to-terms-with-clint-barmes.html#comment-10774 Wed, 23 Nov 2011 03:39:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=21733#comment-10774 thanks for the insight – living in Cincy, I got to witness the small sample size of Yonder Alonso 1st hand this past summer and love his bat. I think the Reds want to acquire a top line SP to go with Cueto and need to use Alonso as the main piece in that type of deal, but if they get no takers, would you be willing to deal Joel straight up for him? and would the Reds?

]]>