Comments on: First Pitch: More Big Market Success Stories http://www.piratesprospects.com/2012/10/first-pitch-more-big-market-success-stories.html Your best source for news on the Pittsburgh Pirates and their minor league system. Sat, 26 Jul 2014 03:11:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.9.1 By: Quinton McLargeHuge http://www.piratesprospects.com/2012/10/first-pitch-more-big-market-success-stories.html#comment-21379 Sat, 13 Oct 2012 17:37:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=43068#comment-21379 The four remaining teams in the playoffs, when the World Series ends, will have 49 of the 108 Championships.

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By: RandyLinville http://www.piratesprospects.com/2012/10/first-pitch-more-big-market-success-stories.html#comment-21376 Sat, 13 Oct 2012 16:18:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=43068#comment-21376 How do you measure players if you don’t use WAR? What is your method? I don’t see any way to claim STL is worse at five spots. So, I’m curious as to how you got to that opinion.
I’d say STL does a lot more better than PIT than just play well under pressure. For the whole season, STL had a higher batting average, OBP and SLG than PIT.

Also, how do you differentiate between an eyeball test and scout’s intuition? I’d say they are pretty much the same thing. Yet you dismiss one and claim the other is the deciding factor in some decisions.
It makes sense to use stats when comparing players position by position (Alvarez vs. Freese for example). It makes less sense when analyzing whether a vet like McLouth can still play after he had a couple of awful months. I mean, if he hadn’t had a couple of awful months, he wouldn’t be available. So, his WAR would be considerably less important than looking at whether his skills had eroded.

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By: leadoff http://www.piratesprospects.com/2012/10/first-pitch-more-big-market-success-stories.html#comment-21372 Sat, 13 Oct 2012 14:36:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=43068#comment-21372 I agree that most GMs don’t merely do an “eyeball test”, in fact rarely do they use an “eyeball test”, I don’t either, I see the WAR numbers, but I think the WAR stat is full of holes. Someone asked Rizzo of the Nats how he grades a player when he has to make a decision on them, he said if it comes down to stats or my scouts intuitions, I go with my scouts everytime.
What ST. Louis players do better than Pirate players as a whole, is they play under pressure very well, there is no WAR stat or any other stat for that.
As far as McClouth, I was just pointing out how bad his WAR was with Pitt and how much different it is with the Birds, same guy different numbers. If WAR was the main criteria for acquiring a player, McClouth would never be in Baltimore.

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By: DXR http://www.piratesprospects.com/2012/10/first-pitch-more-big-market-success-stories.html#comment-21371 Sat, 13 Oct 2012 13:45:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=43068#comment-21371 Now that the A’s and Nationals were eliminated last night, this year will mark the 8th consecutive year that a team in the top half payrolls will win the world series. Does anyone know the last time that both teams in the lower half payrolls were in the world series? 1991.

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By: RandyLinville http://www.piratesprospects.com/2012/10/first-pitch-more-big-market-success-stories.html#comment-21368 Sat, 13 Oct 2012 02:15:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=43068#comment-21368 That’s fine to look at it completely subjectively. But I’d be willing to bet that most GMs don’t merely do an ‘eyeball’ test on the value of their players – they measure it as objectively and with as little bias as possible. To believe that the Pirates are better than the Cards in five spots even based on an eyeball test is considerably off base.

I agree – in terms of future value – that Alvarez is better than Freese (in part because Freese is four years older). So, in that sense, I wouldn’t trade Alvarez for Freese even up. But in 2012, it’s pretty clear by any metric you can find that Freese had a better season – Freese had a higher AVG and OBP and an equal SLG to Alvarez. Freese was better at OPS, OPS+, wOBA and WAR. And in terms of future value (and even in present value), I’ll choose Craig and whomever the Cards have at SS in 2013 (Kozma, Furcal) over Jones and Barmes.
McLouth has nothing to do with the conversation. What is the point in bringing him into it?

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By: Rusty Hodgkiss http://www.piratesprospects.com/2012/10/first-pitch-more-big-market-success-stories.html#comment-21367 Sat, 13 Oct 2012 01:56:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=43068#comment-21367 Is there a point that can be pointed to when baseball became “an unfair game”? (To quote Moneyball) Sometime around when Bonds left Pittsburgh? Money didn’t seem to be an issue until around then? Was it A-Rod’s big contract when he left Seattle? What landmark can be pointed to as the point where teams without huge media markets stood no chance?

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By: leadoff http://www.piratesprospects.com/2012/10/first-pitch-more-big-market-success-stories.html#comment-21366 Sat, 13 Oct 2012 01:05:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=43068#comment-21366 You are correct I am sure.
I don’t use WAR to determine who the better player is, never did, never will. According to your post you would take Freeze over Alvarez, i wouldn’t and I do not think Pitt would trade Alvarez for Freeze. McClouth had a terrible WAR with Pitt, what does he have in Baltimore? Same Guy in Pitt as he is in Baltimore. McCutheon has a high WAR, in my book it should be a lot lower, I think he is an average defensive center fielder and a good hitter for 4 months (two years in a row).

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By: RandyLinville http://www.piratesprospects.com/2012/10/first-pitch-more-big-market-success-stories.html#comment-21361 Fri, 12 Oct 2012 18:18:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=43068#comment-21361 If you go position by position, fan graphs WAR shows PIT having an advantage over STL only at 2B and CF in 2012.

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By: gorillagogo http://www.piratesprospects.com/2012/10/first-pitch-more-big-market-success-stories.html#comment-21360 Fri, 12 Oct 2012 18:05:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=43068#comment-21360 fWar comparisons for the guys you mention
Freese 4.1 vs Alvarez 2.9
Craig 3.1 vs Jones 1.9
Kozma 1.4 vs Barmes 1.7 — note that Kozma only played 26 games and was worth almost an entire season of Barmes

Walker and McCutchen are the only two that are better than their Cardinals counterparts.

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By: gorillagogo http://www.piratesprospects.com/2012/10/first-pitch-more-big-market-success-stories.html#comment-21358 Fri, 12 Oct 2012 17:55:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=43068#comment-21358 One thing to remember with these TV markets is that the actual TV market includes the core city as well as surrounding TV markets. For Detroit, that means Lansing, Grand Rapids, Flint and Toledo while Pittsburgh gets Johnstown, Erie, Youngstown and Wheeling. Because of these extended market differences, Fox Sports Detroit reaches 3.5 million viewers while Root Sports Pittsburgh only reaches 2.4 million.

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