Comments on: How Many Good Hitters Do the Pirates Need For a Legitimate Lineup? http://www.piratesprospects.com/2012/10/how-many-good-hitters-do-the-pirates-need-for-a-legitimate-lineup.html Your best source for news on the Pittsburgh Pirates and their minor league system. Sat, 15 Nov 2014 21:23:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.0 By: Kevin_Creagh http://www.piratesprospects.com/2012/10/how-many-good-hitters-do-the-pirates-need-for-a-legitimate-lineup.html#comment-21341 Fri, 12 Oct 2012 12:00:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=42911#comment-21341 I agree.  We pulled the data for the “starting 8″ and the top 3 other players by at-bats into the spreadsheet.  However, we couldn’t decide on how to proceed with some small sample sizes (200 ab’s for some) and the wildly changing WAR on these reserves. 

Overall, it wouldn’t have affected the Top 3/Bottom 3 ranks significantly and wouldn’t have cluttered up the analysis.  End result — the Pirates need more and better players.

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By: gonfalon http://www.piratesprospects.com/2012/10/how-many-good-hitters-do-the-pirates-need-for-a-legitimate-lineup.html#comment-21340 Fri, 12 Oct 2012 07:40:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=42911#comment-21340 “We used the 8 guys shown on Baseball Reference as the nominal starters
at their position to determine each team’s starting 8 hitters.”

I’m not sure that’s the best methodology, as it doesn’t account for both halves of platoons (or near-platoons, like Barajas/McKenry in 2012).  It also leaves Garrett Jones’ two best seasons on the cutting-room floor.

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By: iliketolikesmallthings http://www.piratesprospects.com/2012/10/how-many-good-hitters-do-the-pirates-need-for-a-legitimate-lineup.html#comment-21333 Thu, 11 Oct 2012 21:36:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=42911#comment-21333 Fangraphs WAR by position in 2012:

Catcher – STL 6.7; PIT 1.71B – STL 4.8; PIT 2.72B – STL 1.1; PIT 3.33B – STL 5.7; PIT 2.9SS – STL 2.6; PIT 2.3LF – STL 5.3; PIT 0.7CF – STL 5.2; PIT 6.9RF – STL 3.7; PIT 1.7
Not only did STL win at 6 of 8 spots (and dominate at 5 of 8 spots), but the Pirates second best position would’ve been just the sixth best WAR value on the Cardinals.

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By: Buccos in 2013! http://www.piratesprospects.com/2012/10/how-many-good-hitters-do-the-pirates-need-for-a-legitimate-lineup.html#comment-21332 Thu, 11 Oct 2012 21:19:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=42911#comment-21332 This is great stuff, clearly pointing out some of the flaws in the 2012 team. Regarding WAR: People everywhere need gigantic understanding in new or way new statistics – yinzers obviously understand

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By: john.alcorn http://www.piratesprospects.com/2012/10/how-many-good-hitters-do-the-pirates-need-for-a-legitimate-lineup.html#comment-21320 Thu, 11 Oct 2012 14:25:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=42911#comment-21320 I’m being a jerk because Kevin posted a ridiculous article that varies in its approach and tells us nothing. His title is about “good hitters”, yet he uses the wrong stat to measure hitting. He goes back and forth about talking about a good team and a good hitting/batting team throughout.

Discussing “clutch” in a WAR based article is ridiculous. You can measure WPA type stats retrospectively (as you said the Pirates were better than St. Louis, wrong again Kevin), but this is not a predictive stat.

Clutch does not exist in WAR because it does not exist in reality, its SSS nonsense.

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By: john.alcorn http://www.piratesprospects.com/2012/10/how-many-good-hitters-do-the-pirates-need-for-a-legitimate-lineup.html#comment-21319 Thu, 11 Oct 2012 14:21:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=42911#comment-21319 Yeah, but the qualified SS’s are better than the non-qualified (that’s why they didn’t get to play a full year). Also, why restrict to the NL only.

If you are using WAR then his wRC+ is irrelevant, his hitting is already figured in WAR.

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By: John Lease http://www.piratesprospects.com/2012/10/how-many-good-hitters-do-the-pirates-need-for-a-legitimate-lineup.html#comment-21299 Thu, 11 Oct 2012 10:30:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=42911#comment-21299 Very true. Only recently have the Pirates even put out lineups that feature players who are even below average ML hitters. Barajas and Barmes aren’t isolated examples, the Pirates have been littered with guys getting ‘one more chance’ to stick. Garrett Jones is about the only one who was worth anything, and lasted more than a season or two. Lastings Milledge is a perfect example.

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By: st1300b http://www.piratesprospects.com/2012/10/how-many-good-hitters-do-the-pirates-need-for-a-legitimate-lineup.html#comment-21296 Thu, 11 Oct 2012 09:01:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=42911#comment-21296 This is a really great visual rep Kevin, and hopefully it will catch the eyes of Pirates management. An argument I’ve been making for years but that you have really laid out with gasping clarity. Thanks.

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By: michaelbro8 http://www.piratesprospects.com/2012/10/how-many-good-hitters-do-the-pirates-need-for-a-legitimate-lineup.html#comment-21294 Thu, 11 Oct 2012 05:29:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=42911#comment-21294 these days there just aren’t many very good/great shortstops around

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By: michaelbro8 http://www.piratesprospects.com/2012/10/how-many-good-hitters-do-the-pirates-need-for-a-legitimate-lineup.html#comment-21293 Thu, 11 Oct 2012 05:28:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=42911#comment-21293 Swisher would be a great pick up

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