Comments on: How Many Good Hitters Do the Pirates Need For a Legitimate Lineup?

By: Kevin_Creagh

Kevin_Creagh — Fri, 12 Oct 2012 12:00:00 +0000

I agree. We pulled the data for the “starting 8″ and the top 3 other players by at-bats into the spreadsheet. However, we couldn’t decide on how to proceed with some small sample sizes (200 ab’s for some) and the wildly changing WAR on these reserves.

Overall, it wouldn’t have affected the Top 3/Bottom 3 ranks significantly and wouldn’t have cluttered up the analysis. End result — the Pirates need more and better players.

By: gonfalon

gonfalon — Fri, 12 Oct 2012 07:40:00 +0000

“We used the 8 guys shown on Baseball Reference as the nominal starters
at their position to determine each team’s starting 8 hitters.”

I’m not sure that’s the best methodology, as it doesn’t account for both halves of platoons (or near-platoons, like Barajas/McKenry in 2012). It also leaves Garrett Jones’ two best seasons on the cutting-room floor.

By: iliketolikesmallthings

iliketolikesmallthings — Thu, 11 Oct 2012 21:36:00 +0000

Fangraphs WAR by position in 2012:

Catcher – STL 6.7; PIT 1.71B – STL 4.8; PIT 2.72B – STL 1.1; PIT 3.33B – STL 5.7; PIT 2.9SS – STL 2.6; PIT 2.3LF – STL 5.3; PIT 0.7CF – STL 5.2; PIT 6.9RF – STL 3.7; PIT 1.7
Not only did STL win at 6 of 8 spots (and dominate at 5 of 8 spots), but the Pirates second best position would’ve been just the sixth best WAR value on the Cardinals.

By: Buccos in 2013!

Buccos in 2013! — Thu, 11 Oct 2012 21:19:00 +0000

This is great stuff, clearly pointing out some of the flaws in the 2012 team. Regarding WAR: People everywhere need gigantic understanding in new or way new statistics – yinzers obviously understand

By: john.alcorn

john.alcorn — Thu, 11 Oct 2012 14:25:00 +0000

I’m being a jerk because Kevin posted a ridiculous article that varies in its approach and tells us nothing. His title is about “good hitters”, yet he uses the wrong stat to measure hitting. He goes back and forth about talking about a good team and a good hitting/batting team throughout.

Discussing “clutch” in a WAR based article is ridiculous. You can measure WPA type stats retrospectively (as you said the Pirates were better than St. Louis, wrong again Kevin), but this is not a predictive stat.

Clutch does not exist in WAR because it does not exist in reality, its SSS nonsense.

By: john.alcorn

john.alcorn — Thu, 11 Oct 2012 14:21:00 +0000

Yeah, but the qualified SS’s are better than the non-qualified (that’s why they didn’t get to play a full year). Also, why restrict to the NL only.

If you are using WAR then his wRC+ is irrelevant, his hitting is already figured in WAR.

By: John Lease

John Lease — Thu, 11 Oct 2012 10:30:00 +0000

Very true. Only recently have the Pirates even put out lineups that feature players who are even below average ML hitters. Barajas and Barmes aren’t isolated examples, the Pirates have been littered with guys getting ‘one more chance’ to stick. Garrett Jones is about the only one who was worth anything, and lasted more than a season or two. Lastings Milledge is a perfect example.

By: st1300b

st1300b — Thu, 11 Oct 2012 09:01:00 +0000

This is a really great visual rep Kevin, and hopefully it will catch the eyes of Pirates management. An argument I’ve been making for years but that you have really laid out with gasping clarity. Thanks.

By: michaelbro8

michaelbro8 — Thu, 11 Oct 2012 05:29:00 +0000

these days there just aren’t many very good/great shortstops around

By: michaelbro8

michaelbro8 — Thu, 11 Oct 2012 05:28:00 +0000

Swisher would be a great pick up