Comments on: First Pitch: The Pirates Don’t Need Giancarlo Stanton http://www.piratesprospects.com/2013/06/first-pitch-the-pirates-dont-need-giancarlo-stanton.html Your best source for news on the Pittsburgh Pirates and their minor league system. Fri, 18 Apr 2014 05:40:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.8.3 By: Douglas Wilcox http://www.piratesprospects.com/2013/06/first-pitch-the-pirates-dont-need-giancarlo-stanton.html#comment-29918 Sun, 23 Jun 2013 21:15:13 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=57954#comment-29918 Stay the course! The only thing that’s stabilized, then improved this team has been pitching. Fortunately, we have even more coming down the pike and we will need it. The Pirates have a great farm system finally, I can’t see trading it away for a good right fielder now, only to lose a possible ace, backup catcher who can gun to second and replace McHenry, and a promising outfielder all of which will be within our budget for years.

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By: pjd http://www.piratesprospects.com/2013/06/first-pitch-the-pirates-dont-need-giancarlo-stanton.html#comment-29827 Sat, 22 Jun 2013 12:11:34 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=57954#comment-29827 The Pirates DESPERATELY need someone like Stanton! By all measures the Pirates offense ranks in the bottom third of the NL. The main reason is they don’t have anyone other than McCutchen they can count on everyday. Stanton would give them that bookend to go with McCutchen make them an explosive offensive club. Rios and Willingham will still cost the Pirates a couple of prime prospects (although they can probably hold onto Taillon) as well as millions in salary. That cost is not worth the minor impact they’d have on the Pirate offense. A 2B and/or 3B platoon would have a negligible impact on the offense.

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By: clemente21 http://www.piratesprospects.com/2013/06/first-pitch-the-pirates-dont-need-giancarlo-stanton.html#comment-29801 Sat, 22 Jun 2013 00:58:57 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=57954#comment-29801 Agree totally. Presley “looks” like a leadoff man but his OBP belies it.

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By: do13 http://www.piratesprospects.com/2013/06/first-pitch-the-pirates-dont-need-giancarlo-stanton.html#comment-29791 Fri, 21 Jun 2013 21:43:47 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=57954#comment-29791 I agree with the article to an extent. With what has been rumored, Stanton isn’t worth it. Taillon and Polonco, simply not worth it at this time. I imagine the Yankees are gonna grab Stanton to be honest. Stanton is an amazing player, but I think strategically the move isn’t the right one. Although, the Marlins ARE a suspect organization and I wouldn’t be surprised if Stanton was acquired for far less. Being said, I think Stanton IS the rare type of player who can win games solely by himself. Let’s not kid ourselves, Polonco’s best projections point to the character Stanton is now, or another high-average moderate power OF like McCutchen. I have yet to see a scout hail Polonco the next big HOF slugger like Bonds.( If so, yay us!) It’s a pretty common thing for Stanton to be associated as such.

If I had to make a deal at the deadline, I would see we could dump some of our OF depth to MIA and some of other pitching prospects exlcuding Taillon. He’s untouchable. When push comes to shove, I doubt MIA would trainwreck a deal because Taillon wasn’t included. It would come down to more rather they want to trade him in the first place. Assuming that deal would never happen… I’d go Alex Rios, or take a DIFFERENT route than I have seen… and grab a first basemen like James Loney

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By: Nuke Laloosh http://www.piratesprospects.com/2013/06/first-pitch-the-pirates-dont-need-giancarlo-stanton.html#comment-29789 Fri, 21 Jun 2013 20:50:42 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=57954#comment-29789 Getting Stanton would be a great upgrade to our present RF situation. However, the proposed(hypothetical) trade would never happen. I for one(as I stated in a previous post) would not make that trade. I would, however, look at dealing two prospects while throwing in Travis Snider and/or perhaps McKenry if Sanchez was not part of the deal. What is the trade you would make right now and for who?

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By: IC Bob http://www.piratesprospects.com/2013/06/first-pitch-the-pirates-dont-need-giancarlo-stanton.html#comment-29784 Fri, 21 Jun 2013 20:25:39 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=57954#comment-29784 Leadoff you always have good insight. I disagree on a few points. As the talent moves forward the PBC will need to navigate a roster crunch at the 25 man roster as well as the 40 man. Additionally the point is to try to win. Right now the readers of this forum are so excited about the future they no longer care about the present. The problem with that is the future always looks brighter then the present. I really believe we can have our cake and eat it to. I don’t believe we have to trade Polonco or Tallion if we so choose. I think we could get a guy like Stanton for less. The Marlins need players and who more can offer the bulk then the Bucs. Additionally when does a team go for it? We love to speak of the Rays but they are an afterthought in the AL east and what looked like such a promising present and future now looks suspect. I would prefer to look at the Cardinals way of thinking which combines present talent with the future. The Cards had no problem getting a Beltran even though they had Craig, Tavares and others waiting in the wings. I fear we become the KC Royals and always have a team to look out for but not the team to make that next big step. If we got a Stanton we would have to trade a lot but who is to say we can’t get a lot for him in two years? We could still have a guy who hits 40HRs drives in 110 runs, gets on base with a bunch of walks and makes everyone in the lineup better by his presence. One last thing, in two years their is going to be a roster squeeze (40 man roster) that is going to force the Bucs to give away talent. Lets make sure we get something really good in return.

Like I said before, Polonco could be a future HOF but how huge would it be to add that type of power and skill to this line up?

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By: pdad http://www.piratesprospects.com/2013/06/first-pitch-the-pirates-dont-need-giancarlo-stanton.html#comment-29776 Fri, 21 Jun 2013 19:36:00 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=57954#comment-29776 While I don’t like the hypothetical trade because it gives up 3 pretty sure major leaguers for one, is thereany circumstance the Pirates would ever consider a Stanton type player if not now? The farm system has great depth so why not trade some of it? Stanton or a player like him will never be acquired in free agency because of price. Are the Pirates limited to home grown talent and minor free agent additions?

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By: Nate Rose http://www.piratesprospects.com/2013/06/first-pitch-the-pirates-dont-need-giancarlo-stanton.html#comment-29773 Fri, 21 Jun 2013 18:15:13 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=57954#comment-29773 I’ve been throwing this around the blogosphere, so I’ll post it here, too:

For those saying “Don’t sell the farm,” you have to consider the stunning failure rate of what “The farm” produces. Let’s look at some blockbuster player-for-prospect deals and how they turned out:

Jason Bay landed four prospects. And say what you will about the performance of the people we got in return, but LaRoche and Morris were both highly regarded, while Moss was a C-grade prospect and Hansen was a former top prospect with a chance to rebound. And yet, you kinda have to say the Red Sox and Dodgers won that trade, don’t you?

How about the trade that the ESPN article linked to in this blog post mentioned, where the Tigers sent Andrew Miller, Cameron Maybin, Mike Rabelo, Eulogio De La Cruz, Dallas Trahern and Burke Badenhop to the Marlins for Miguel Cabrera? Maybin was BA’s #8 prospect in baseball. He’s now 26 and is a 4th OF for the Padres with a career .248/.311/.370 line. Miller was BA’s #10 prospect in baseball. He’s 28, in Boston as a reliever, and has a career 5.37 ERA, 1.67 WHIP. Was 6 prospects – including two of the top 10 in baseball – for 2 MLB players (Dontrelle Willis also went to Detroit) a bad deal for the Tigers? Did the Marlins get more value out of Maybin and Miller than Detroit has gotten out of Cabrera? Kinda hard to make that case, don’t you think?

Remember when the Indians traded Cliff Lee and got Carlos Carrasco, Lou Marson, Jason Donald and Jason Knapp? Carrasco was Philly’s best prospect, number 41 in baseball per BA. He has a career 5.18 ERA, 1.49 WHIP, and had Tommy John surgery. Marson was another top-50-in-baseball prospect. He’s a backup catcher now. Knapp was a top-100 prospect and is out of baseball now. Donald is in AAA for the Reds and was a utility player in Cleveland. It’s kinda hard to say that the Phillies paid too much for Cliff Lee in retrospect, isn’t it?

Remember when those same Indians traded CC Sabathia to the Brewers for Matt LaPorta, Zach Jackson, Michael Brantley and Rob Bryson? LaPorta was ranked 23rd in baseball by BA, 14th by MLB, and was drawing comparisons to Ryan Braun. He ended up being a quad-A player with a career .238/.301/.393 batting line. He’s in AAA now. Jackson was the Brewers’ #10 prospect. He has a career 5.81 ERA, 1.56 WHIP. Rob Bryson was the Brewers’ #11 prospect. He’s in AA now at 25 years old. Brantley is a semi-successful fourth OF for the Indians, but can you really say he provides more value than Sabathia provided to the Brewers? They won the NL Central largely because of Sabathia that year.

The Phillies acquired Roy Halladay from the Blue Jays for Travis D’Arnaud, Kyle Drabek and Michael Taylor. D’Arnaud was and remains a top prospect. We’ll see how he turns out. Drabek was ranked #25 by Baseball America. He’s now had two Tommy John surgeries, and at 25 hasn’t pitched in the Major Leagues. His AAA line has a 7.44 ERA and 2.02 WHIP. Michael Taylor was ranked #29 by BA. He has had 81 MLB plate appearances…in Oakland, scattered over 3 seasons, for a .135/.210/.189 line. He stopped hitting after he made the jump to AAA.

There are, of course, deals where the team getting prospects wins the trade, and wins big. The Nady trade for us comes to mind. Bartolo Colon for Brandon Phillips, Grady Sizemore and Cliff Lee comes to mind. But those deals are MUCH rarer than the case where the team that’s getting the player wins the trade.

Do you know why it takes multiple top prospects to land elite MLB players? Because the vast majority of prospects, no matter how highly regarded, flame out. Pirates fans should know this too well. Remember Chad Hermansen? Scouts said he could walk on water. Kris Benson? At one time, he had as much national hype as Stephen Strasburg.

When you’re a rebuilding team, it’s wise to stockpile prospects. That’s not because they’ll all pan out, it’s because most of them WON’T pan out, and you need to gather as many players with potential as possible to catch the few that do. But when you can compete for the World Series, that focus shifts. You start trading “maybe” for “definitely.” The Pirates are at that stage right now. They have the third-best record in baseball. If they carry that into the trade deadline and they can upgrade RF from Travis Snider to Giancarlo Stanton, NOW IS THE TIME TO DO IT. He’s one of the best hitters in the game. They’ll have him for three years after this one. And while Taillon and Polanco both have a chance to be very good players for a long time (Sanchez, I’m not as sure about), Stanton is definitely a great player right now and barring something horrible happening will be for years. If he continues on his current pace, he’s a future Hall of Famer. Maybe Taillon will be the next Roger Clemens, and maybe Polanco will be better than Stanton. Then again, maybe Taillon will be the next Kris Benson and Polanco will be the next Chad Hermansen.

We are the only contending team in baseball with a fanbase that wouldn’t jump at the opportunity to trade top prospects for Stanton. Everywhere else, fans of teams are constructing elaborate packages of “what it would take for us to get this guy.” 21 years of losing has conditioned Pirates fans to always think about the future. Always think about “In a couple years, when some prospects pan out, we’ll contend for the World Series.” The Pirates are 43-30. The future is right now. The prospects HAVE panned out. It won’t take a couple years. RIGHT NOW is the time to contend for the World Series. And the beauty of Stanton in particular is that he’ll also help us contend for the entire duration of this McCutchen/Alvarez/Walker/Marte offensive and Burnett/Rodriguez/Cole pitching core. He’ll be there for the whole time that the window is open. Trading prospects to get him isn’t mortgaging the future at this point, it’s competing for the present AND the future. And you know what else? When his contract is about to run out, if we’re not contending, we can trade him to acquire prospects.

Despite the failure rate, there are still few players in the Majors whose talent make it worthwhile for small-market, contending teams to trade a bunch of prospects for players. But Stanton is one of those players. Stanton is special. I’ve been against the deals proposed in the past – the “sell the farm for Hunter Pence” types. Those were trades for slightly above average MLB players. There is a HUGE difference between trading top prospects for a half-season of Hunter Pence and trading for 3 1/2 seasons of Giancarlo Stanton. If Stanton’s career arc continues in the way it has so far, he’s a future Hall of Famer. His similarity scores through age 23 include Boog Powell, Bob Horner, Frank Robinson, Miguel Cabrera, Justin Upton and Jose Canseco.

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By: JRIcentral http://www.piratesprospects.com/2013/06/first-pitch-the-pirates-dont-need-giancarlo-stanton.html#comment-29772 Fri, 21 Jun 2013 17:43:41 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=57954#comment-29772 Have to disagree! pirates are 13 games over 500 thanks to good pitching. If Stanton would help with only a couple of extra wins per month, we´d be in 1st. Place!!!
Marlins should keep Stanton for the rest of the year though, since he´s quite inexpensive right now, and the return in the off-season should be as good as right now.
But as dreams go, wouldn´t you want to have an Albert Pujols in his prime as a Buc for the next 5 years??? That’s the kind of upside Stanton has!

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By: leadoff http://www.piratesprospects.com/2013/06/first-pitch-the-pirates-dont-need-giancarlo-stanton.html#comment-29771 Fri, 21 Jun 2013 17:39:09 +0000 http://www.piratesprospects.com/?p=57954#comment-29771 But if it were Glasnow, Bell and Allie? I’d bite.

Not me, no way. I agree with Tim, there are enough quality players that will be available for a lot less that will help the Pirates. Most teams in baseball will not give up any of their top ten picks unless it is for a rent a player that they think will take them to the promise land and most teams don’t have the quality top 10′s the Pirates do. Glasnow, Bell and Allie are top ten players in most organizations. I am leaning more towards giving up someone of the current 25 man roster and possibly 1 prospect. A Justin Wilson for example might be a pitcher that would be in demand.

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