The Pirates Made a Better Offer For David Price

Cork Gaines at Rays Index (via Charlie at Bucs Dugout) writes that Peter Gammons said on MLB Network that most people felt the Pittsburgh Pirates offer for David Price was greater than what the Rays received in terms of talent. The quote that Gaines relays is as follows.

“Most people thought the Pirates offer, which was all about prospects and minor leaguers, might have been greater in terms of talent and that the Pirates were much closer to getting Price than we realize. But the way that the Rays look at it in Franklin and in Smyly, they get two current Major League players who are under control for a long time [and] cost efficient. They can step right in and play for [the Rays]. The kid shortstop is a tremendous talent and two years from now may be a really good player. So, in the end, having two Major League players come in the deal rather than four prospects, probably is a better deal than anything they could have gotten anywhere else.”

It seems that the Rays wanted a very specific return. They wanted players who could help them now, but also help them in the future. They weren’t looking for a total return of prospects, which is what the Pirates had to offer. They did receive one prospect in the deal, getting breakout shortstop prospect Willy Adames. From what I’ve read, the Rays really like his upside. Other than that, it’s hard to see the Pirates putting together a similar package of players without taking a big step back at a position or two in the majors in the process.

Tim Williams

Author: Tim Williams

Tim is the owner and editor in chief of Pirates Prospects. He started the site in January 2009, and turned it into his full time job during the 2011 season. Prior to starting Pirates Prospects, Tim worked with AccuScore.com, providing MLB, NHL, and NFL coverage to various national media outlets, including ESPN Insider, USA Today, Yahoo Sports, and the Wall Street Journal. He also writes the annual Prospect Guide, which is sold through the site. Tim lives in Bradenton, where he provides live coverage all year of Spring Training, mini camp, instructs, the Bradenton Marauders, and the GCL Pirates.

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  • moose7195

    A whole bunch of people that were complaining yesterday should feel really stupid right about NOW. You can’t make the other team trade with you, and paying an exorbitant amount more than everyone else would’ve been stupid.

    • Bryan Graham

      No they shouldn’t, it’s about getting the job done and NH didn’t get the job done. Sure Lester or Price would have been nice, but were plenty of other pieces out there the Pirates could have gotten including names not even mentioned. Just because he made a real push at Price doesn’t mean he made equal pushes for other players. For example, I wouldn’t mind seeing Bonafacio on the team, he is a low cost upgrade over Martinez and the other smuck they have playing third base and how hard could it have possibly been to get an upgrade over Frieri in the pen or a couple other of the guys in the pen for that matter. There is still no excuse for getting nothing done. And please don’t pull that “we still got the August deadline” garbage. There is no way any helpful arm gets through waivers, you may be able to get an offensive upgrade, but not pitching.

  • Matt Beam

    Which 4 prospects did NH offer?

    • moose7195

      I heard at least one top 4, but I don’t know names

      • bucsws2014

        One top 4, one 5-10 is, plus, 2 others is what I heard on Starkey/Mueller.

        Personally for 8 months of Price I wouldve offered Marte, Kingham and an 11-20 prospect, plus Tabata at a discount (whom the BoSox seem to want?)

        • Lukas Sutton

          There is no real proof they want Tabata at his current contract, and whatever you gain in Price over his alternative you lose in the drop off from Marte to Snider overall. That likely doesnt even net us an extra win on the year which negates the value. This late in the year, Price gains us about 1 extra win. Snider is roughly a half win worse than Marte at least and we also lose a ton of years of control.

        • risefromtheashes89

          You give up a guy with 7yrs control with a big ceiling? Who do we replace him with long term? Bell is 2 years away and Meadows longer. Everyone complained about Tabata who was hitting 290 and Snider who his tearing the cover off now. No one wanted those guys. Who do we have hidden that I don’t know about????? Marte makes no sense to trade right now.

          • csnumber23

            Thank you!!!! Someone with a clue! Marte should go nowhere, period!!!

          • bucsws2014

            You replace Marte with Polanco. You bring up Lambo or whomever, but Harrison takes most of the ABs.

            I’m not sold on Marte, never have been. You believe in your defensive metrics. After all, those metrics clearly state Pedro is a plus defender and Cutch is absolutely awful in CF.

            Cespedes > Marte. And Billy moved him for 2 months of Lester for the purpose of, um…. WINNING.

            And before anyone reaches back for that cliched “you’re giving up the future” b.s., please explain how, because you’re not. There’s still plenty of future. And Price through 2015, so maybe some hardware to go with that future.

            Btw, where’s Cole again? Where’s Taillon again? How’s Kingham been doing lately?

            • moose7195

              Where is it defined that David Price=WINNING?

              Me personally, I would’ve included Marte in a deal if it helped keep players with higher upsides stay in the system. But I’m very much low on Marte because of his plate approach, I think it limits his potential massively.

            • risefromtheashes89

              Cespedes is under control by Boston for exactly 1 more year. Billy moved him for a chance now because he would be losing Cespedes next year any way. Marte is under contract for 7. Marte has a high ceiling. I would not trade Marte for 2 month rental and a pedestrian OF.

              • bucsws2014

                In addition to being offensively challenged, Marte needs to stay on the field. For all the talk over the past couple years of Walker being fragile, over the past three full seasons he’s only missed 17.5% of games. In his two full seasons, Marte is already past 18% and counting.

                • risefromtheashes89

                  Hand injuries due to HBP and concussion due to HBP are injuries that are unavoidable. Missed a few games due to family death too. Was on a tear before the All Star game until the concussion. Potent top of the lineup with him there. How many games won because of his arm?? No one runs on him. Holds doubles to singles and no body tries to score on his arm. Everyone talks about how Martin saves runs with his arm. Marte does the same.

                  • IC Bob

                    No point arguing for Marte here. There are a bunch of people who just don’t like him. In there minds he is yesterdays news. They talk about plate patience when his walk rate and HBP rate are in line with most MLB players. They scream about his dumb base running but they fail to mention he steals 40 bases hits clutch HRs and makes great plays routinely in LF. This site focuses on the future so a lot of people convince themselves that guys batting 300 in single A are move valuable then guys batting 270 in the majors. Its the nature of the beast.

            • csnumber23

              Marte is signed for 7 more years and Cespedes 1 more year. Last year in his 1st year Marte had a higher WAR than Cespedes. You and others are blinded by the fact that Marte strikes out. Tons of great players struck out a lot. He already walks more than Vlad Guerrero did and he is border line hall of fame. If you and others can’t see the upside, extremely high ceiling for Marte then I don’t know what to tell you.In his prime he will be a Gold Glove outfielder and multiple time All-Star!!!

              • bucsws2014

                You don’t have to tell me anything. I watch pretty much every game, either on Root or in person. My opinions are from watching the guy day in and day out.

                And please, getting hit in the hands is unavoidable? Have you ever played the game?

                • csnumber23

                  I played Rookie Ball in 1994, I was a pitcher. Yeah I played the game all my life! I still pitch now in an over 35 league. I live in Pittsburgh and make about 15 or so games a year and rarely miss a game on Root. When did I say getting hit in the hands is unavoidable? You are entitled to your opinion, I don’t agree with it. Time will tell who is right but I for one am glad Marte is on the team and hope he becomes what I believe he can be.

                  • bucsws2014

                    My mistake, the guy above you (risefromashes) said the thing about getting hit in hands is unavoidable. Obviously since you play, you know better.

                    • csnumber23

                      No problem! Look I know Marte has some flaws, plate discipline, leaning out over the plate, wild reckless running at times, ect. But I see so much potential in him to be a super star if he puts it all together. I wouldn’t trade him now because of that potential plus his long term contract. If we traded him and he became something like Bautista with less power, more speed and way better defense, it would make me sick. it is so early in his career that he should continue to improve on the flaws to go with his raw talent. Now 2 years from now and he is the same guy, then sure trade him. By then Bell and or Meadows will be close to replace. This is my opinion but time will tell the story.

                      By the way, great comeback tonight!!!

                  • leowalter

                    cs : don’t bother that guy with facts ! Who needs facts when you are know as much as he does about MLB player ?

          • Kenny Moore

            Josh Harrison gives the team the flexibility to trade Marte. Everyone wants to talk about Marte and his “huge ceiling” and team friendly deal. Everything you guys are saying about Marte now was the same thing that was said about Tabata a couple of seasons back and he is in the minors now.

            • csnumber23

              Please!!! If you can’t see the difference in talent between Marte and Tabata then you are blind!!!

              • Kenny Moore

                You are missing the point so I will say it slower so you can understand.

                Everything that you guys are saying about Marte……young OF with huge upside and a great contract are the same EXACT same thing that Pirate fans were saying about Tabata who is now in AAA.

                Yes I think Marte is by far the better player when compared to Tabata but that has nothing to do with my comment.

                • csnumber23

                  I never said it about Tabata but yeah you are right, people were saying that.

            • risefromtheashes89

              Tabata never had Marte’s arm nor his speed. Had he not been hit in the head, he would be solid in the top of the lineup right now and Harrison back to being super sub. Still playing and getting at bats but giving guys days off all over the field without a big drop off. I am not saying never trade any of these guys but now is not the time. Like I have been saying I want to be the Cards and trade guys because we have other guys ready to play. Not just trade guys and try to plug holes with whomever. That was the 1990’s Bucs. Can do with out. I want the 2010’s Cardinals. The Bucs are getting there.

              • Jared

                He would be starting at 3B where Pedro Alvarez can neither hit nor throw a baseball across the diamond.

                The real startling factor for me is that the Pirates did not pick up at least a bench player…nor have they promoted someone from the minors even though they have Morel and Martinez taking up spots on the bench and getting nothing in return.

                • Kenny Moore

                  Pedro will be fine. Don’t forget he was tied for the league lead in HR last year and made the all star game. He is in a slump right now but he will bounce back.

            • jaygray007

              Tabata is also probably 4 years older than he says he is. Would explain a lot.

              And using Harrison permanently in LF really takes away the pedro alvarez-cant-throw-baseballs and polanco-cant-hit-lefties-yet insurance that jay hay provides.

            • Joe Nastasi

              JHay starting equal Barmes, Martinez in Jhay’s role. Yes trading Marte wouldn’t hurt at all. Look at the trickle down effect. Marte is Gold Glove outfielder & Cutches “D” is sub par. Have you ever seen him make a throw that made you say nice throw let alone Wow. Or a runner not test him. I’m not bashing Cutch just stating fact.

            • leowalter

              Are you serious making a comparison like that ?

      • csnumber23

        Probably Bell or Meadows

  • PirateBall123

    Probably wouldn’t have even needed to be a significant bundle to be perceived as a better return talent wise. Dangle a package like Kingham (or even Alen Hanson), Ramirez, JaCoby Jones, and Adrian Sampson and you’re sitting pretty without gutting yourself.

  • szielinski

    I’m satisfied with Huntington’s failure. Last year’s failure too. The organization is stronger because of it.

    • Kenny Moore

      I don’t consider yesterday a failure at all. Huntington was ready to rip a hole through our system to get a true number 1 pitcher that Pittsburgh hasn’t had in a very long time. You add Price with Cole and Liriano and I will put those 3 versus any other 3 in a NL playoff series and feel very comfortable about our chances. Last year he did the same thing trying to get Stanton from the Marlins. Both players are elite at their positions. Sooner rather than later Huntington will get a GM to pull the trigger and we will get a really good hitter/pitcher. I like how aggressive he is being at these trade deadline. The 6-7 prospects we have in the top 100 all won’t be good players once/if they ever get to the majors. The only way we will ever get a player(s) like Price and Stanton is by draft or trade because this ownership simply refuses to spend big money on a free agent.

      • pilbobuggins

        Good point, I find myself agreeing with you.

  • Kenny Moore

    Which 4 is the question that every Pirate fan wants to know. I don’t see the Rays being interested in Tabata like Boston was rumored to be and I don’t see Huntington dealing both Glasnow and Bell either.

    My guess is Josh Bell, Nick Kingham, Jacoby Jones and Adrian Sampson.

  • bucsws2014

    Here’s a thought… if you could convince RAJ to eat enough of Hamels contract so Bucs only pay $16 mill/yr for life of that contract, do you make the same offer?

    That kind of deal may be the only one out there to save RAJs job.

    • Spa City

      RAJ does not know how to value players. He honestly believes there is excess value in the contract he gave Hamels. There is not. Hamels is a very good pitcher, but he is being paid every dollar you could hope to wring out of his contract. He might pass through waivers because nobody would want to take on his salary. RAJ would want a huge return for Hamels, and if he was asked to eat some of the contract he would want a king’s ransom.

      • bucsws2014

        With the pasting he’s taking from fans & media today, maybe he’ll take the hint.

  • Dropkickmurphys

    Not according to the Rays and that’s all that matters. The only thing that matters is closing the deal.

    It’s odd, when rumors (Gammons or otherwise) don’t support the front office, the rumors are dismissed. But when rumors tend to support the FO, the rumors are supported without question.

    I tend to go with facts. NH has a history of failing to complete the deal. This year was no different.

    • jaygray007

      NH also has a history of making deals every year.

      Hmmm.

    • moose7195

      Do you have any proof about the rumors? Or do you only believe the things that support your argument, and dismiss everything else?

      No other things do matter. NH blowing the door off the hinges and offering far and away more than every other competitor is 10,000x worse than him falling just a little short of a competitors offer. It sounds like he took the risk of offering more than everyone else. The Rays wanted something else that we couldn’t offer. It happens, and your criticism hold no water

      • Dropkickmurphys

        Actually, I don’t and I’m not pretending that I do as tim is. The best deal is evaluated by the Rays and they didn’t take the Pirates deal, whatever it may have been.

        You don’t know that NH blew the doors off. You may want to believe it but you don’t know it. All we have is Gammons word and he’s been wrong before (see his comments on how good Kris Benson would be).

        Results matter and NH didn’t improve the team. Anyone who watched last night’s game can see that relying on Jeff Locke is not a good way to win.

        • moose7195

          So it’s your word versus Tim’s. No one has any reason to assume you’re right anymore than him.

          And there is absolutely a point where you can overpay, even for David Price. You can’t demand a move regardless the cost. If it would’ve taken Glasnow, Polanco, Taillon, Bell, and Kingham, can you seriously justify pulling the trigger on that deal? If so, then you’re irrational. So clearly no, the Rays opinion is not the only one that matters. Bringing in David Price is not a guaranteed World Series ring. And treating him like he’s the only thing this team needed to win it is also delusional.

          Here is the only right thing you’ve said: RESULTS MATTER. Let’s look at the results. 230 wins and 202 losses since 2012. Three playoff wins last year after 20 straight losing seasons. A completely retooled farm built from scrap that produced the NL MVP as well as great contributors to the playoff run last year. A 2014 team that is current out-winning the top 10 payrolls in baseball. Does none of that matter??? Can we say that NH has earned nothing in the way of a benefit of a doubt??? Not to mention that NH is under the thumb of ownership as much as us when it comes to spending. But to be honest, I don’t know why Nutting’d want to spend money when this fan base reacts like spoiled, petulant children when a trade deadline passes with relative quiet despite the product on the field being 100x times better than it was 6 years ago.

      • Dropkickmurphys

        Actually, I don’t and I’m not pretending that I do as tim is. The best deal is evaluated by the Rays and they didn’t take the Pirates deal, whatever it may have been.

        You don’t know that NH blew the doors off. You may want to believe it but you don’t know it. All we have is Gammons word and he’s been wrong before (see his comments on how good Kris Benson would be).

        Results matter and NH didn’t improve the team. Anyone who watched last night’s game can see that relying on Jeff Locke is not a good way to win.

    • bucsws2014

      One doesn’t negate the other. If the Rays didn’t want all prospects its well within reason the Bucs offer had more value but wasn’t filling the Rays immediate needs so they declined.

      • Dropkickmurphys

        Therefore, from the Rays perspective and that’s all that matters, the Pirates offer wasn’t better.

        • StevePegues

          Who elected you the arbiter of how to define “best deal”?

          Gammons wants to define it as the deal with the most talent. You disagree, wanting to define it as “the deal the Rays liked best.” Both viewpoints have merit.

    • Lukas Sutton

      Yinzers gonna Yinz

    • leowalter

      Your name gives you away. Just making noise.

  • Monsoon Harvard

    The A’s said outfielder Sam Fuld was the only major leaguer offered for starting pitcher Tommy Milone so that’s why they made that deal with the Twins. Neal blew that one. Seems like he could have offered Tabata for him at least.

    Milone is a decent starter with excellent control. It’s so hard to believe the A’s would settle for a guy like Fuld. He’s been released like three times it seems. They said they needed someone right away though so they took the deal.

    • csnumber23

      Nobody wants Jose Tabata and for good reason. For all we know he may have offered it and the A’s may have laughed in his face.

      • Jared

        Jose Tabata has more value than Morel or Martinez as bench players.

    • Lukas Sutton

      Tabata has no value, his contract is a negative at this point and he is in AAA for a reason. No power guy that lost speed and plays average defense. Stop acting like our throw aways magically have value because we want to move them.

      • bucsws2014

        That may not be the reason he is in AAA and off the 40-man though.

        Birds chirp and some birds chirp that Tabby was a negative influence on Marte and management wanted him nowhere near Polanco.

        • Lukas Sutton

          Other than that total speculative idea, it still doesnt make him A) a useful ML starter or B) worth his money.

    • bucsws2014

      I’ve been told by numerous A’s fans on other boards that Fuld is a “Billy guy”.

      Now, normally you don’t DFA “your guy”, but maybe it’s a Left Coast thing.

    • leowalter

      And you think Tabata is a better outfielder than Sammy Fuld ? Dream on.

  • Michael Shaeffer

    I mean the point of acquiring Price would have been to improve the MLB team. Dealing guys like Marte doesn’t do that.

    • krinks

      Of course it does. Marte isn’t that good that his numbers can’t be replaced. Look at how Dickerson is doing for Cleveland that was persona non grata in Indy for us.

  • csnumber23

    I have no doubt the Pirates offered more for Price than they got. There return is putrid for Price. Now as soon as Cole Hamels clears waivers and he will, Neil should make the same offer to moron Amaro that he made for Price. I would rather have Hamels anyway and Amaro needs to start rebuilding or he is out the door.

    • meatygettingsaucy

      Unless Amaro is eating up an absolute ton of that $24mil/year contract, I’m not sure I’d want Hamels, regardless of how talented he is. It just puts way too much of a hole into paying other players

      • csnumber23

        Absolutely, they would have to eat some money!

      • Jared

        This is also very true…especially considering the need to re-sign Russell Martin. I do not know if the Pirates would give up enough to get Hamels+the required MILLIONS per year needed to get Hamels.

      • Jaynestown

        I don’t think they would eat enough money from the deal. Amaro still has delusions of competing year in and out, so I fully expect this entire team to be back next year for Philadelphia (unless the GM is fired).

  • Mike Adamson

    This article was so predictable… Yea I feel real stupid. Talk is cheap and Price wasn’t the only player on the market. They played it cheap in the offseason after a playoff run. Then they played it cheap at the deadline after getting in a division hunt. I understand why Peter Gammons would write this crap but god are Pirate fans gullible!!! Next year Nutting will open up the wallet!!!

    • StevePegues

      Yes, obviously Gammons would deliberately lie because… umm…

      • Mike Adamson

        Both of you believe what you want but Gammons is loved by every organization for this type of article. Ever wonder why he’s so connected? Just keep living the lie. Next year boys. I’m a French Model!!!

        • StevePegues

          “Ever wonder why he’s so connected?”
          _______________________________________
          40+ years of sports journalism springs to mind.

    • Lukas Sutton

      Gammons writes crap, RIGHT! Troll on

      • Mike Adamson

        Yea I troll. I care more about this team than anyone on here. Just tired of defending this ownership group. The truth is they should’ve addressed 1B and SP in the offseason. They said Napoli is the perfect fit for this team. Not sure I agreed but if so spend the money in a year you came out of the playoffs. Or don’t say it at all. They talk about players that’s it.

        • StevePegues

          So where’s your proof that Gammons is deliberately lying then?

          Just because you’re tired of defending the ownership group doesn’t give you license to attack them by alleging that a respected journalist would put out a false story that kind of praises the front office.

          • Mike Adamson

            It doesn’t matter. Keep waiting.

            • StevePegues

              So… no proof then?

              • Mike Adamson

                You might enjoy this but I doubt you will understand my point. Why would he choose Gammons? http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/peter-gammons-fails-test-interview-alex-rodriguez-article-1.389444

                • risefromtheashes89

                  One article from 5 years ago biased by one person’s opinion of Gammons interviewing skills for TV is proof that the man is liar. All righty then………….

                • moose7195

                  And you believed the journalism created by the MLB’s biggest liar, Bob Raissman??? What a rube. That guys been slandering honest journalists for YEARS.

                  But in all seriousness, you could make any point ever by challenging the work of the people who give us news. That’s not hard hitting investigatory work by you, it’s desperate. Gammons works for the MLB not the National Enquirer. Why would he risk his credibility by becoming a consistent liar for MLB teams?

                • StevePegues

                  You’re right: I don’t understand your point.

                  Gammons did a puffy soft interview of Alex Rodriguez once upon a time, so therefore he’s fabricating a story about what the Pirates offered for Price. Is that your point?

                  I still don’t see what would motivate Gammons to risk his reputation– which is pretty much all a journalist has that’ll keep him working– by printing a false story like this. He’s afraid that his sources will suddenly dry up if he didn’t? That’s pretty far-fetched, seeing as how he’s cultivated source relationships for about the last 40-50 years. And he could just as easily reported nothing and not risked his reputation, letting whoever peddled the story to him try some other reporter, and not drying up his sources.

                  Sorry dude, but caring more than anybody about this team is no license to make things up.

                  • pilbobuggins

                    Agree, gammons is one of the few who when he talks I listen.

        • risefromtheashes89

          I care at least as much. Been through the wringer and back over the years. They did address starting pitching in the off season. Volquez and Worley. Both are better and much cheaper than Burnett yet people still crying they messed up on Burnett. Philly would not have taken Burnett had the Pirates offered the 14 mil. So no draft pick as compensation as they would not have signed him and given up that pick this year. Bucs now have 2 starters at least as good as Burnett and room to try to resign Walker and Martin. The Pirates used to spend money on old guys and we ended up with Joggin George and Operation Shutdown and lost the farm system. The Bucs are finally doing things right. They are what the Cards were several years ago when they used the model we are using now. I want to be the Cards and appears we will. Throwing away money and players for short term fixes is what killed the Pirates in the 90’s

          • Bryan Graham

            Sorry, they didn’t address starting pitching in the offseason. They signed a couple guys that nobody else wanted to hope and prayer contracts and they got lucky. They also got lucky that Burnett hasn’t been very good. I doubt it would have surprised anybody had both players been cut by this point in the season.

            • Lukas Sutton

              Lucky with AJ, lucky with Liriano, lucky with Volquez, lucky with Worley. At some point, you realize its more than luck.

    • risefromtheashes89

      @ Mike Adamson, what would you have given off of the Major League Roster for 1 1/3 years of Control of Price then watch him walk away? That is what Tampa wanted instead of prospects. They got 2 major league players and what sounds like an Grade A prospect. Again what 2 players off of the roster and which grade A prospect from the Bucs would you part with for a short term fix???

      • Mike Adamson

        Are you serious? Pick Morton or Locke because that is damn close to Smyly. When you say Major league talent do you mean the .214 ML hitting Prospect? That’s what he is. Far from established in ML’s. So I say J-Hay or Alvarez are better. Then any prospect you feel like mentioning for 2 years of contending. Never has the asking price been lower for a true ace.

        • risefromtheashes89

          They are contending now without making this move. You get Marte back in a week, with the pitching we currently have we are contending. Get rid of J-Hay or Alvarez who plays 3rd if the one who is left gets injured this year or next? What if We keep J-Hay and he is only average next year? Then you have no 3rd base and a Starter on a weaker team than we have now that will be looking to move on next year. Weakens the team in my book.

        • jaygray007

          Morton is not nearly as valuable in a trade because he makes what he is worth. Guys like locke and Smyly are so valuable because they are so cheap. Smyly has more potential but they are at least in the same area code of trade value I think. Could be under rating Smyly though.

          Franklin is not a prospect. He is a young major leaguer. If they didn’t sign cano, he would have nearly as many major league ABs as marte. He is a talented player.

          And why would they want pedro? They are set at 3b 1b and dh I think.

    • moose7195

      Did Nutting have a press release promising 2014 was the year the payroll jumped to 200 million dollars? You can’t seriously believe that the rumors about Pit being seriously after Price to be a hoax? Really? How does spreading fake rumors about the teams intentions help the FO? The only thing they could expect from the fanbase would be anger.

      Maybe NH was actually in on Price, offered a better deal, and the Rays took a different one because it fit their own short term plans better. I know it’s crazy talk, but maybe there is no conspiracy. Maybe the Rays made a unique decision compared to what we’re used to because that’s what they wanted. Which isn’t unusual for them. They’ve written the book on unique decisions.

      • risefromtheashes89

        Well the local sportscasters say it is a conspiracy so it must be!! Must be lemmings and believe what the pundits tell them to believe

    • jaygray007

      What is Nutting supposed to do? Force trades?

      He has said multiple times that he leaves baseball decisions to the baseball people.

      And the fact that they even discussed price means that they had nutting’s blessing to add that payroll. Unless Gammons and Rosenthal and Dejan Kovacevic and everyone else is lying.

      Just like when they offered Burnett $12 million. The money is there. They have tried to spend it. Multiple times.

      If you wanna accuse the FO of something, maybe it’s that they try to get too cute sometimes like when they declined the QO cuz they didn’t wanna bid against themselves. But come on. The Nutting trashing is sooooo tired.

  • risefromtheashes89

    Gots to love the lemmings that parrot what the local Pgh sports pundits tell them and believe it all to be true. These guys still think the Pirates blew a compensation pick by not giving AJ a qualifier last off season. Morales and Drew both thought thew would be signed right away too. Philly would have never signed him and given up their 1st rounder this year. We would not have Volquez nor prob Worley. We got 2 starters for under half of what a qualifier would have cost with AJ and both are better right now. Bucs did the right thing but don’t tell that to the Pgh pundits.

  • pilbobuggins

    Nice to be vindicated, after I said the pirates made a better offer both yesterday and today. When I said it you all scoffed and I said I’m usually right in the end. Guess what, I was right again. I swear if more folks listened to me there would be a lot less trouble in the world.lol

    • bucsws2014

      What would you do with Gaza & Israel?

      • pilbobuggins

        Side with israel completely

    • moose7195

      Yeah, I’ve never been wrong either. You can believe me because I just told you so here and now. How’s the Mark Melancon prediction going?

      • pilbobuggins

        Wait for it, if you remember I said he is a good short term solution and is more suited for the 8 th inning, my prediction was he would falter during the heat of the pennant race and playoffs. Since we are not there yet all I can say is wait and see.

        • moose7195

          You’ll have to show me those words because I remember you screaming that Melancon isn’t suited for the 9th inning at all, and that they need a closer ASAP.

          PS: He only gave up one run last month.

      • pilbobuggins

        The secret is, if your looking for answers and find the one you want,keep looking your probably wrong.

        • moose7195

          What answers am I looking for again? Are you questioning my stat? I can’t spin his last 4 weeks, that’s how he’s been pitching. Couldn’t your justifications be subject to your own comment?

  • bucsws2014

    I’ll tell you guys why you should trust my judgement on these things. Last year, it was generally accepted that Trumbo was a far better catch than Bourjos. However, I, in my infinite wisdom, disagreed.

    Fast forward to this year, they both completely suck, but Bourjos is a +1 WAR and Trumbo is a -0.5.

    So I was right :-)

    • Jared

      The trade for Trumbo garnered the DBacks less than what Ike Davis has provided the Pirates and the return was like 5-times as much.

      • bucsws2014

        Yeah. Adam Eaton currently 1.5 WAR, Tyler Skaggs currently 1.6. So that’s a -3.6 spread for Trumbo. Well done Mr. Towers.

        • Jaynestown

          To be fair, Trumbo has been hurt most of the year. Trumbo could hit 50 homers if healthy a full year in that ballpark. Defensively he’ll always be a huge drain though, misplays just about anything hit his way

  • krinks

    This is nice to know.

  • krinks

    I think too many teams have been burned by “prospects” that they almost have to get major league ready talent in return. Look at the Red Sox. They now have Allen Craig, Y Cespedes, and Joe Kelley making them far better today than they were yesterday. It also gives their young pitchers a chance to step up.

  • wadex22770

    I believe the Pirates need a solid 1st baseman not a platoon. They need a backup catcher. They need a relief pitcher and a starting pitcher. I would have lovedvto see Anthony Rizzo and Starling Castro to come to Pittsburgh. What do you all think of those options. Am I right or do you think we should stand fast. Frei has to go. He is pitiful. I wished they would have kept Grilli

    • Jaynestown

      Why stop with wanting one of the best 1st baseman in the National League and an All Star Shortstop? Mike Trout and Clayton Kershaw are out there too

  • William Wallace

    Gee we couldn’t have thrown in Tabata and Morel in the deal!