Rob Biertempfel has an update at the Trib about how the Pittsburgh Pirates are looking for lefty relievers. Biertempfel says that the club is looking at free agent Craig Breslow, and that they’ve reportedly discussed sending Travis Snider to the Baltimore Orioles for Brian Matusz. Yesterday we heard that they were exploring trade options for a lefty reliever.
Breslow is coming off a horrible year with the Red Sox, posting a 5.96 ERA and a 5.14 xFIP. Prior to that, he was always a guy who would out-perform his advanced metrics, posting a career 3.20 ERA and a 4.39 xFIP. He looks like more of a middle relief option, and with the prices paid to free agents right now, he might not be the best option.
Matusz is interesting. He has a 3.51 ERA and a 3.83 xFIP over the last two seasons as a reliever, with a 9.0 K/9, 2.9 BB/9, and an 0.9 HR/9. He is eligible for arbitration this year, projected to make $2.7 M, and is under control through the 2016 season. By comparison, Snider is under control through the 2016 season, and is projected to make $2 M this year.
Snider represents a very interesting situation. He won’t be a starter for the Pirates, since they will be going with Gregory Polanco as their right fielder. He has struggled in the majors for most of his career, but turned things on last year in early June. Starting from the time Polanco arrived to replace Snider in the lineup, he posted a .289/.353/.510 line in 224 plate appearances, hitting ten homers in that span. His numbers were so insane in the second half that he ranked 3rd on the team in wOBA, and third in wRC+, finishing right ahead of Andrew McCutchen in both categories (while also beating him out in slugging and OPS).
That’s not in any way to say that Snider is a better hitter than McCutchen. You’d need a lot more than just a second half breakout for that to happen. But Snider’s hitting can’t be ignored. The Pirates have sent away former prospects like Jose Bautista and Brandon Moss, only to see them finally break out elsewhere at a late age. If they trade Snider away, and he does the same thing, then they can’t say that it couldn’t be foreseen, since he is already starting to hit.
That doesn’t mean he’s untouchable. He’s currently the fourth outfielder, and a great depth option if one of the outfielders goes down (which seems likely) or if Polanco continues to struggle making the jump to the majors. I would rather have that type of player, possibly on the verge of finally breaking out, than having a second lefty reliever.
UPDATE 1:35 PM: Reports from the Baltimore media say that there’s not much progress on the deal right now.
Source confirms @jperrotto report that #orioles and #pirates met to discuss Brian Matusz for Travis Snider deal. Nothing hot there, though
— Roch Kubatko (@masnRoch) December 10, 2014
#Orioles had preliminary discussions w/ #Pirates on Travis Snider for Matusz deal but there doesn't seem to be much progress at the moment.
— Eduardo A. Encina (@EddieInTheYard) December 10, 2014
Tim started Pirates Prospects in 2009 from his home in Virginia, which was 40 minutes from where Pedro Alvarez made his pro debut in Lynchburg. That year, the Lynchburg Hillcats won the Carolina League championship, and Pirates Prospects was born from Tim's reporting along the way. The site has grown over the years to include many more writers, and Tim has gone on to become a credentialed MLB reporter, producing Pirates Prospects each year, and will publish his 11th Prospect Guide this offseason. He has also served as the Pittsburgh Pirates correspondent for Baseball America since 2019. Behind the scenes, Tim is an avid music lover, and most of the money he gets paid to run this site goes to vinyl records.
This one I don’t like…
Lunchie is a perfect 4 th outfielder for the Bucs – effective as a pinch hitter and played a pretty good left field last year. Still think the Bucs should give him a first basemans glove so he could back up there if needed.
Like Matusz – but not at this price.
Two lefties available in the Rule 5 draft tomorrow if they are still available for the Pirates. Sean Gilmartin, Twins and Jarlin Garcia, Marlins.
I would not be afraid to bet that Hanson could bring Clippard from the Nats.
I would like Matusz but I think Snyder is a bit rich just for him. I see Matusz < J Wilson yet way more expensive with less years of control. I wouldn't mind giving up Snyder, who is re:re:re:dundant on this bench, but I want the O's to kick in a low minors kid with talent.
They have a lot of pitching.. Do ya think , instead , we kick in the prospect and squeeze them for a #5 starter?
I would make this trade – Matusz could become an Andrew Miller type reliever….Snider is a utility player and PH – a guy like Lambo, Rojas, etc could fill his spot….
I doubt they could fill the pinch hitter part of the utility player like Snider does, not many guys can do what he does.
You may be right – Snider had a great year in 2014 for pinch hitting…..but, to get a good LH reliever like Matusz, I would do the trade….
Anthony Bastardo is a guy that is rumored to be someone the Pirates are looking at, gives up a lot of walks, but is a guy I always thought the Pirates should have pursed, if Byrd goes to Baltimore, the Phillies will be looking for outfield help. Still don’t know if I would give Snider away for him, would try to give the Phillies someone else.
Perfect. The Phils may be one of the few teams seeking , long term , controllable chips..Also, Baltimore is trying to win , the Phils have tipped their hand on the pending fire sale.
We all seem to agree our concern remains starting pitching depth. We all agree for a starter we would part w major league pieces.
*Maybe this is all horse shit . Maybe it is a smoke screen or pressure point for another negotiating partner to force them to deal before we move on.
Bucs have a pretty good starting 6 now with more guys possible as call-ups. Their offense is pretty much set, unless they deal Pedro. They have enough money left to build a killer bullpen, which would make a huge difference. If they had just a league average number of blown saves* last year and they walk away with the division, and probably host a playoff series.
(*They blew 24 saves; 18 was league average. They also had 3 walk-off losses to the Cards and 2 to the Nats).
I wish it seemed like building.. Thank goodness Hous bailed them out. $6m a yr to Neshak… I woulda puked.
No we don’t all agree, we have starting pitching depth, we don’t have bullpen depth, that is why the Pirates are out looking for pen pitching.
We can go 10 deep in starting pitching including their AAA pitchers, that is decent depth, probably more than most of the teams in baseball. Of their starting 5 only one of them has an ERA over 4.
When a starting pitcher washes out he can make a successful transition to the pen, Once one of those Unknowns like Crumpton fails as a starter , he fails , and a $6m reliever can’t fill the void that false rotation depth can create… There is no chance we will see Sampson, Kingham or *Taillon , even if he was ready , before the end of May. Bet.
Cumpton is a starter, because they don’t have a spot for him they will not stretch him out and he will probably be a long relief pitcher, but he is good starting pitching depth should they need him. There is a chance we might see Kingham and Tallion in 2015. Kingham is major league ready and Tallion just needs to regain his strength and form.
No, no.. I am sure we see them in 2015… Not til June 1.. They will not start those service clocks running..
I agree, but the Pirates don’t need a lot of starting pitching until May.
With Polonco they think they can get him to sign a team friendly 10 yr deal.. If those power Rh kids have success , they will not be team friendly about their potential money.
I could be wrong, but I get the feeling the Pirates think Snider is expendable because they put him in the same depth class as Lambo, lose Snider use Lambo instead, but in reality Snider is a terrific pinch hitter as well as a solid player when given a chance, without him last year, I don’t think they get to the wild card game.
I think a trade of Snider says more about what the Pirates think they have in Lambo then it says about what they think of Snider. There really is only room for one of those guys so maybe the Bucs think Lambo is ready to be a solid 4th OF with potential to take over 1B if and when Pedro flops.
The other important thing to consider is that for whatever reason, Snider proved last year he could hit LHP, and as you mentioned, he can come in cold off the bench and face either RHP or LHP. The Bucs don’t have an equal elsewhere on the roster. Maybe 2014 was an aberration, but his #s vs LHP in 40+ ABs were exceptional.
Lambo has been inconsistent in the minors. At worst , Snider has a special feel for the niche of pinch hitting.. Its hard. At best he puts a full yr together off his 2014 second half. Lambo has zero major league value and no reason to believe he can translate his best AAA run into anything Snider has accomplished at the top level.
That is what you think and what I think, but I don’t believe the Pirates see it our way.
You’re right. One thing is for sure , I never know what they are thinking.. And they seem to be pretty smart. Dont know what it says for me.. But I’d rather be wrong and see them win 90 games
Does matusz have any potential as a starter?
Very good question. He def did not long ago, but we know ya don’t give up on a top flight starting pitcher unless he gives you repeated good reason.
Interesting point on whether he can start or not. He is still a 4 pitch reliever that hasn’t gained substantial velo by going to the pen so that’s not a significant part of his success. He is still young and was just ok as a starter but I’m sure he could be stretched out although he has a lot of stretching out to do: 128 games and 102 IP last two years. I am guessing he is pretty much considered a reliever by the industry at this point but the Pirates FO is known to get creative.
Ya make a good point and may be onto something. He will need to stretch back out but Buck is the alter-ego of Hurdle and will bring on a LH or RH to throw as little as a pitch… So that thin use may simply by Managerial design.
No. Do not trade Travis Snider for a relief pitcher. Not when Gregory Polanco has not yet proven anything.
He doesn’t need to prove anything. He is a 5 tool player, Snider barely has 3 at his best. Polanco doesn’t need to be looking over his shoulder, they aren’t even in the same talent pool
Agree in theory, but its a bit misleading to act like Polanco isnt the clear RFer of the future, and basically of now. Polanco has proven he can hit ML pitching and that he was very streaky, which is what about 90% of rookies experience. He has proven the speed and defense are legit.
I don’t think he’s the clear right fielder. . His prospect status dictates he’s worthy of the opportunity and 24 games should not eliminate his opportunity. . But snider stepped up when polanco did not.. snider is also less controllable contract wise.. I think the smart money is to establish sniders value early in the year.. trade him at the deadline to make room for Polanco at the deadline, giving him the chance to develop into the player he’s projected as, but not proven to be
I like Snider, i think he is a very solid bench bat. But the idea you just presented makes no sense for me. First, if you are going to trade Snider do it now. His value only slightly goes up if he plays well, and if he reverts to regular form you get nothing. It also greatly stunts the progression of Polanco to sit the bench and not play everyday. Polanco is clearly above AAA talent with nothing to prove there, and as such is the clear RFer. They cant really justify sitting Polanco due to his skills and the fact that he showed he could handle ML pitching last year. If anything, they have Snider on the bench and if Polanco really struggles he is in. Starting Snider seems a moderate gain, huge risk play for a team that is trying to win the division. I do not think Snider is the hitter he was the 2nd half of last year, though i also dont think he is poor overall.
If sniders trade value only slightly improves if he proves to be the second half hitter then I agree we should trade him now.. but weren’t you just debating that he’s just a 4th of worth only a reliever? I think the value increase would be more then slight.. if cutch had three times the plate appearances in triple A as Polanco and he did ok you may be overstating the stunting of growth. . Benching him for snider if he struggles as you suggest would be much more harmful… I think once he gets in he’s in.. for like 500 ab’s
No, i dont overestimate the fact that sitting a player who arguable has 4-5 tools that are ML ready right now is bad for the guy. Sitting doesnt allow him to improve his approach, doesnt give him increased experience with ML pitching. In short, he gets no chance to work out his inconsistencies while also not getting consistent work. Not sure how allowing him to prove himself and then benching is worse than simply benching him and saying “you gotta work on stuff, but not in AAA because we dont want you to get actual work in”.
Him being in for 500 at bats is a good thing, particularly since even if he hits worse than snider his defense and speed make him a better overall player.
I would have him start in AAA..
So you take a guy that hit .240 in the majors, has excellent speed and above average defense and bench him because Snider had 100-200 good at bats? That’d be a depressing sign from a team valuing its young talent. Polanco doesnt gain anything against AAA pitching, since his only real issue right now is learning to consistently hit ML pitching.
For my point, look at the streaks Polanco went on. A few weeks of hitting near .300 or over, a few weeks of struggling. He repeated that multiple times. That doesnt show a guy incapable, but a guy that needs time to adjust more than half a season. Polanco is the better RF overall.
I haven’t Polanco is incapable. . Nor that he’s not going to end up a better player.. my point isn’t about Polanco. It’s about snider.. reread what I typed.. take 10 minutes to understand. .
But my point is that no team should bench a better player for someone just to improve trade value. Not only is it risky for Snider, it makes the team worse.
Did they not bench polanco based on performance
Not for the logic of “If Snider plays well, we can flip him and put in Gregory”. Polanco was experiencing rather historically normal rookie struggles, in that he was streaky. During a pennant race, they had the luxury of Snider playing well. If you cant distinguish between that and OD starter then you arent being fair to the argument. Snider was a good call late last year, but its a very different thing to say Polanco doesnt deserve a shot to fail before benching him this season, particularly due to his talent. Otherwise, you are saying you value SSS more than any other way to measure the quality of a player. Tough for players to see the manager go “Snider played well for 1.5 months, you were up and down. We love your talent and you are a great player but we gotta go with Travis,” and then see them trade Travis and act like Polanco is their guy come August.
If Polanco had earned the starting position last year ir even in st i’d agree.. but you’re extrapolating Polanco’s upside into his performance and forgetting that snider isn’t chump meat fill in. He has an upside greater then Polanco with his bat.. and given that we’re talking right field where range doesn’t matter.. it’s not too far fetched to believe snider will actually end up the better play.. snider was a higher rated prospect then Polanco has ever been
In no way does Snider have a higher upside than Polanco. I disagreed with your argument, but that point isnt up for debate with anyone beihng realistic to baseball. Even with his bat alone, Snider doenst have higher upside than Polanco because Polanco has .300+ avg 20 HR ceiling stuff.
It is absolutely far fetched to assume based on 100-200 at bats that Snider has gone from “we should DFA him” (which was a HUGE argument at one point) to “better bat than Polanco, should clearly start over him”. If that SSS is what the team allows itself to make a roster of, it’ll get disappointed too often for my liking. Snider may have turned a tremendous corner, or had a good hot streak and regress to regular levels. Polanco is being told, in that scenario, that his barely half a year of playing didnt earn him a spot because he was inconsistent while at the same time not allowing him to do anything to prove it was normal rookie adjustments. No way for Polanco to show improvement at AAA (because he clearly is above that level) or on the bench.
Ya. I got a bit carried away with the upside. Vodka has that affect. My point was suppose to be that snider was once tgought of as highly as you think of Polanco. . The reality is Polanco looked pretty clueless at the plate while snider mashed.. It’s not unreasonable to think that snider is the superior talent the first half of 2015, or even beyond.. I realize you’ve drank a huge gulp of Polanco juice and you feel the only focus should be his development.. but if you paid attention to his at bats last year, he was severely over matched once he had tape on him.. it may very well do him good to dpend time in AAA to correct why he sucked it up.. that time ib rf could really improve the value of snider, at least increasing from middle relief to middle rotation. . So yes, back to my original point, starting polanco isn’t necessarily a no brainer. . This isn’t saying tgat Polanco won’t eventually be a stud.. if I didn’t think that I wouldn’t have chirped so much about trading marte..
“Let Polanco fix why he was exposed…but do so in AAA”. If you read that again and dont realize how that makes no sense, im sorry. You cant fix consistency issues by stepping way down in talent level opposition and playing. That doesnt solve any of his needs, it just lets him bash AAA pitchers some more and have to go through normal struggles again when he returns. You cannot learn to adjust to ML pitching by facing AAA arms.
You continue to act like Polanco is mostly hype and Snider is near his level. You are taking a few hundred at bats and deeming them clearly more valuable than Snider’s previous 400+ at bats that were average. Polanco has hype because he has 4 very above average tools and was making AAA look like MLB the Show. You dont sit that talent based off inconsistent, yet still impressive at times, half a year. Travis Snider is a great option….off the bench. If you wanna trade him at peak value, do it now. Teams should not determine a starting position in any part due to “we want to up his value to trade him” if they are serious about winning. Better overall player gets the nod, and its Polanco. Better arm, better speed, slightly better paths to the baseball, and a better ability to get one base.
Polanco is a chump.. snider is a beast.. it was obvious when they benched greg for snider.. best playa got playin time! !!
I agree. Although I believe it is a matter of when and not if w Polonco , I have my doubts that ‘when’ is April 2015. More importantly , I feel our FO has their doubts as well. I have to believe they would like to give the job to Snider to start out , while allowing Polonco reps in Indy to continue to mature. They admittedly rushed him , and he is very young.. Snider deserves to lose the job and Polonco deserves the extra time to mature.
Snider is a valuable player for the Pirates, I would think they could go in other directions to get a player the caliber of Matusz. As far as Breslow is concerned, he had a 1.81 ERA and a 3.60 FIP in 2013, looks to me like a guy they should take a chance on after a down year in 2014.
We’ve had plenty of relievers with ERA’s of 3.5 to 4.5 with relatively high walk ratios, and we saw what we got with those guys last year – absolutely nothing. I don’t think Snider is untouchable, but I don’t want anything to do with trading him for Matusz. There is nothing in his history to indicate he’s going to be better than Wilson or Gomez or the other guys we had in the bullpen last year.
Agreed, and I think there is equivalent talent out there on the FA market. I’d rather keep Snider.
Hard to know what to make of Snider. He finally did have a good half, and his .292 average from July on went with a ..313 BABIP, which is not outlandish. OTOH, his HR/FB rate was 20%, which is unsustainable. If you turn 4 of those 10 second half HR into outs, reflecting a more reasonable 12% HR/FB, his 2nd half slugging would plummet by nearly 100 points.
So… while he had a good second half, I don’t think he’s all the way there yet. I’ve been saying for a while that a guy with his talent will figure it out at some point, and I still believe that, but it could happen when he’s 30 and last only a few seasons.
How about turning them into doubles instead of outs…….its not really fair to turn a homer into an out…..ever.
Hi there. I did that, if you read on. It halved the impact.
Although I don’t believe that what you say is valid. Many balls if hit a just a little different angle will be easy outs, or could be right at a fielder. So “not ever” is not correct either.
Anyway, I’m not trying to build a legal case, I’m just trying to put a reasonable estimate on how much luck impacted Snider’s HR total, and therefore SLG.
They were still hard hit fly balls.. why turn all four into outs and not double/triples
Sure, you could do that too. I don’t know whether they were big flies or line drives or what, and I am not sure what assumption is more reasonable, but if you turned them into doubles that would be a decrease of 8 total bases, over 178 second half at bats, a decrease of .045 in slugging.
There’s a lot you can do with statistics before they stabilize. . Big swings with marginal changes
I don’t know where to find results of balls that were hit hard/med/soft for a player, but I was able to look up to find that 33% of Snider’s batted balls were hard hit in 2013, and 27% in 2014. To me that would indicate there was some good luck involved. On the other hand, his contact rate was up significantly in 2014, usually right around 70% up to 2013, it rose to 77% in the first half and 81% in the second half. That is a good sign.
Plus with the news that they were willing to discuss moving him for a reliever would support your comment that his numbers are driven by luck.. I just have a difficult time using stats for players who are still developing. . I wonder if the difference you showed above is due to a change in approach? If so then his distance on balls likely decreased as well so it would support your theory that his slugging is inflated by a luck component (imo)
Good call — Snider was 9th in the league in fly ball distance: http://www.baseballheatmaps.com/graph/distanceleader.php
I think this bodes well. I’m even more against trading him now.
Thanks but I was anticipating his distance to decrease. Lol.. kudos to you for the research
Having said all that, there are some decent lefty RP out there on the FA market, and the Pirates have money left in their budget. They don’t need a great lefty, they have Watson. A couple of good ones would suffice! Say, Thatcher and The Gorz. Or Sean Burnett (coming off TJ surgery mid year). Scott Downs. Neil Cotts. Wesley Wright. those are just the lefties. There are even more RHP options. I think Tim Stauffer would be an interesting option.
This doesn’t make much sense, Hurdle or the Pirates don’t seem to have much affinity for left handed specialists, the whole clean inning thing. And while I don’t think Snider is that valuable, he should certainly command a little more than two years of a reliever who struggles to get RHH out.
When did this organization suddenly need to prioritize dollars and talent to acquire relief pitching ? DON’T DO IT !
No, not a serviceable fourth outfielder that Snider has become for just “another relief pitcher!” I thought this FO did not “over-value relief pitching!” I can really see Snider becoming Brandon Moss II!
Brandon Moss isn’t that good….even the 2014 version of Brandon Moss (whole year, not just the first half) sits as the 4th outfielder on this team. He strikes out a ton, is very streaky, and has a crappy average.
Save Snider for something bigger. Besides, we’re not yet guaranteed Polanco is going to take off. He probably will, but better to be safe than sorry.
Agreed, if Polanco doesn’t really impress in Spring Training, then I can see him getting some more seasoning at AAA. Would rather have Snider than Tabata starting!
fwiw, a number of stat geeks here like to quote Steamer projections. And Steamer says Polanco is gonna suck. In fact, they project Lambo, SRod and Tony Sanchez to contribute equal or greater WAR than Polanco.
I don’t think that’s going to be the case. Just sayin’ a lot of folks like to cite projections to make their arguments.
Maybe look closer at the projections, because that is based on him playing 24 games with 101 plate appearances. A lot of folks like to cite projections into an argument when the projection is projecting the proper playing time, or adjusted accordingly. Almost no chance Polanco only plays 24 games.
so why are they predicting he plays 24 games? That shows how worthless projections are, if they can’t even project playing time correctly, how can they predict anything else. It’s like…..the most basic part
The update projections regularly, and often wait until after a flurry of moves to do so. With the winter meetings happening, expect a ton to change in that regard. Not surprising they havent formulated what they see in PT with many guys moving. If one isnt fully sold on the projection system that is fair and valid, but calling them worthless because they havent updated their PT projections in December is being a bit of a homer. Half the offseason is still coming.
And who’s fault is it that they only project him to play 24 games (with very little ISO and only a .699 OPS, btw).
Garbage In/Garbage Out.
So yeah, that makes no sense at all. Somehow you can now say its the players fault for a projection not being updated enough to give him proper playing time. If you run projections of Polanco at 120+ games, he profile as a 2 WAR type player. Garbage.
You have a ugly habit of making assumptions.
I’m not blaming Polanco. I’m calling out the Steamer algorithms.
So you call out people who use Streamer, even though the example you are using is actually YOUR fault for saying “hahaha, this proves Streamer cant really be trusted” even though its not the projection that is wrong, but the parameters they are assuming he will play under and the parameters of this discussion.
Even if you assume that nothing at all changes in the projection by simply multiplying it to account for accurate PT, you get Polanco as a 1.5 WAR player. Once Streamer updates his projection to account for accurate playing time, it’ll be a useful tool. As opposed to the “my eye tells me” that others use.
I’m not interested in discussing with you what Polanco will or won’t do. Because neither of us know.
It’ll take two seasons for enough data on Polanco to be compiled to be of any use. And even then there’s a huge margin of error. If you want to check yourself, go open up the Google Doc for 2014 pre-season Steamer projections then come back and tell me how many were on point and how many were ridiculously off. I didn’t count the ones that were off because I was looking for some specific players, but let me tell you… a LOT were off. Way off. With very few exceptions, you simply can’t point to one specific player and say “he’s going to do this” with any degree of confidence.
And projections for relievers? Hahahahaha.
Well said sir
There should be a conference interval associated with those projections.. 🙂 Polanco could be all over the map
I have faith in the organization enough to be confident they arent dumb enough to use ST results as a way to judge who starts. Polanco, barring a meltdown, is starting in RF. No reason to send him to AAA.
They need to take away this security blanket so they don’t even have the temptation of taking Polanco out. Polanco can hit. 200 and is still more valuable with his arm and speed than Snider is at his best
I wont go that far, since Snider is a good thing to have. Having no quality OF depth is asking for Marte to get injured and hurt us big time. Snider is great, but Polanco should start until he clearly proves he is incapable of hitting well at all.
Wouldn’t it also include 2014 performance with spring training
Yeah, but his 2014 wasnt bad enough to justify much with him. In his rookie season he hits .240 with occasional pop and streaks of hitting that made you go “wow” and streaks that looked like a rookie. 2014 looked like a young kid with tons of talent adapting.
They used ST results last year with Lambo.
No, no they did not. People said that, but people say a lot of things that are wrong. They looked at his entire body of work over the winter (which sucked) and how they felt he was adapting to full time 1B (they didnt love it from reports). People assumed him not getting the job was all about ST, and thats false.
Lukas, if he hit. 230 in the spring and K’d 20% of his AB’s, he would have been the starting first baseman. If you don’t believe that….i don’t know what to tell you
I dont, and its not the fact you make it out to be. NO team uses ST in that way, it just does not happen. Teams admit it, every year by saying “ST really isnt evaluative in terms of the numbers”. Its the worst type of SSS because it can come against hacks that wont be playing in 2 weeks. He lost it by hitting poorly all winter and the team having a lack of faith in how he handled 1B to that point.
That was a special case since he hit sub .100 haha. If he would’ve just put up Barmes numbers, he would have been the 1B.
So as long as Polanco doesn’t look completely lost in ST, he should be getting plenty of starts in April.
I do not like the sound of that deal. It took years to get Snider’s bat going and for him to find consistency and his power stroke. I feel like he is too valuable to the team to deal him for what amounts to a good bullpen specialist. I would rather deal a prospect.
Jose Tabata will be the fourth OF if Snider goes I assume.
My guess would be Lambo if Snider is traded. Replace the LH bench bat for another. I’m a fading Tabata fan so I would love to see him rejuvenate his career, but that probably isn’t going to happen while he is with the Bucs.
I really hope they don’t make that deal! I’m OK with trading Snider, but I’d rather see them get a starting pitcher for him. …. Jesse Hahn.
No team is going to trade a young starting pitcher for a 4th outfielder.
Doug- that is a silly comment. Let me fix it. No team will trade a pitcher they expect to start for them for a player whom they expect to be their 4th outfielder. Of COURSE a team would trade a starting pitcher if they had an excess, especially if they thought Snider would be a starting outfielder man….comeon. Now i think Snider is a piece of shit, so i’d gladly trade him for Matusz, but thats not the point. and Matusz IS a starting pitcher, hes just a bad one, whom has been pitching in relief recently
Teams are pursuing make league ready talent. Snider is a former top prospect that seemed to be figuring things out last year and was finally healthy. Im not suggesting straight up, include prospect(s) in deal. Like rickster said he wouldn’t be a 4th OF on teams with weak outfields, like SD.
What about the mets? They were looking to move sanerguard (spelling? ) close? Takers?
The Mets aren’t moving Sondergaard for anyone but Stanton. They’re moving Gee, Niese and if lucky, Fatso.
I’d take Gee or Niese. Who would we have to give up?
It did seem a bit too good to be true scenario. . Thanks for clarifying
On it’s face , no they wouldn’t. There are however, a few teams that have a surplus of back of the rotation talent and a need for an OF bat. Snider was considered a sure thing as a Toronto farm hand . As referenced he wouldn’t be the 1st ,2nd or 5th late blooming hitter we gave up on just as the penny dropped. Perhaps , if the Cubs were not in the Central w us , they would be willing to give any one of the starters that they have no place for. Someone, less OF fortunate than us may view him as a starting rf , rather than a 4th of.
He wouldn’t be a 4th outfielder for the Orioles. .
He wouldn’t be a 4th outfielder for most teams.
Unless he continues his second half numbers, he actually would be a fringe 3 OFer/4 OFer on many teams. His stuff prior to the big second half are the stuff of guys that have a place, but arent for sure starters.
Again just playing devils advocate because i personally think Snider sucks, BUT Snider up until 2013 was expected to be exactly the player we saw last year in the second half, not the player he was up until that point
I would argue Snider lost that high draft pick “future star” status going into 2012, due to 3 straight years of very uninspiring results. We traded a relief option for him, which signals they didnt have that optimism about him they did 1-2 years prior. Even 2013 was below average, so he was not really expecting to be much of anything going into last year.
That one is pretty simple.. if an offer at the value that excludes his best and most recent results is given… reject
No team is going to make an offer based on the SSS over the overall body of work, thus the issue with Snider. Some may see that SSS as a sign of him turning it around, but in negotiations they will pound his lackluster year and a half before that.
There.. you’ve identified the trade partners.. the some who see the sss as a sign..
Or for some other teams, like the Phils for example.