The Pittsburgh Pirates have traded Arquimedes Caminero to the Seattle Mariners for a player to be named later, per a team press release. There will be a corresponding move later today to add someone to the active roster.

Caminero had one of the best arms in the bullpen, and maybe even in the organization, but was struggling this year. He had a 3.51 ERA, but a 5.29 xFIP that showed he was getting lucky (mostly due to an 82.8% strand rate, which counteredΒ more walks and a .336 BABIP). Last year, he had a 3.62 ERA and a 3.77 xFIP. However, his strikeouts were down this year (23% to 17.1%), his walks were up (9.1% to 11.8%), and he was giving up a lot more hits.

Without knowingΒ who will be added to the roster today, IΒ would predict that this move was made to open a bullpen spot for Jeff Locke, with one of the prospects coming up to take Locke’s place in the rotation. I’d expect today’s move to be one that could add an extra bench player or bullpen arm until the Pirates need that additional starter. Ed Giles will have live coverage from PNC Park tonight, and we will have more updates throughout the day.

UPDATE 2:38 PM: Greg Johns of MLB.com reports that the Mariners claimed Caminero off revocable waivers, and the Pirates decided to work out a deal. They will get one or two prospects, according to Johns. If a deal wasn’t reached, the Pirates could have pulled Caminero back off waivers and kept him.

UPDATE 4:00 PM: Curtis Partch had his contract purchased from Indianapolis. The move will be temporary though, giving the Pirates an extra reliever for now. As expected, Jeff Locke will be moving to the bullpen, and will be available tomorrow.

The Pirates will need a starter next Tuesday. Meanwhile, Chad Kuhl was pulled from his start tonight, replaced by Kyle Lobstein. So it looks like he will be joining the rotation.

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149 COMMENTS

  1. Would rather have Caminero in the pen than Locke. I do not understand why the PBC tossed aside a power righty who is under contro and is relatively cheap so they could keep Locke who should be a goner no later than this offseason.

  2. When he was good, he was really fun to watch.

    When he was bad, it was nothing short of painful to watch.

  3. If I were Cutch, i would demand to be traded at this point – he does not have enough years left to watch another rebuild πŸ™

    • With the 4th best farm in baseball, many of them in the high minors, and a staff/management team that has a proven record of finding value in the free agent/trade market through last season…

      You Sir must be from outer space, because you surely have no idea what you are talking about.

        • Yes people like you make the average, open-minded, well informed fan seam like “experts” at times like these.

          But I will likely be proven right. And folks like you will never say a word when that happens.

          • Open minded is why you criticize everyone who disagrees with you? If you truly believe these decisions are solid, you have proven your ineptitude. Locke will prove you wrong again. I’ll tame Cam over Locke any day of the week.

            • Why I criyisize? You are acussing me of being critical, after the temper tantrum you and dozens more just threw here, shouting me down for a solid week?

              I don’t think you have the skills to debate me. But keep at it, I am weary of all these ridiculous over reactions to a good front office who have proven over years and years to know their job. And I will not let you have the last word, especially when those words are so poorly thought out.

              • I will be happy to debate you, Gallatin…30 years of baseball watching, playing, and coaching experience…the reason why you have been subjected to such ire is your refusal to acknowledge the facts that are in front of you. No move in the preseason or at the trade deadline were aimed at making us better THIS year…they were always aimed at financial and controlability measures which does not win championships and to toss aside a 100mph reliever for essentially nothing is not acceptable at any level – only sellers make moves like that (see the Nova deal)

                • It is in the best interest of ownership to just be competitive and preserve the farm. It takes balls to be a champion and take a big step, a risk, to be world champions. Ask Jim Rutherford. Nutting, Gallatine and family will never get this. They are okay with just being competitive. It takes guts to be a champion.

          • You were actually proven wrong already…I remember your positive comments regarding the lack of preseason moves this year saying we would be ok.and unless we win 98+ this year – it would be a failure

      • as many have said previously, you do not hang banners for best farm clubs…my question is how do we catch the cubs over next several years? how do we catch the cardinals?

    • They’re not rebuilding, they’re retooling. And if Cutch were performing at all like he usually does, we probably wouldn’t even be doing that, so…

      Also, you chose the trade of a struggling reliever as an appropriate roster move to comment about the team rebuilding? Caminero was never a core piece. If he was, we’d be in big trouble.

      • Darkstone, competing teams do not re-tool in the middle of a playoff hunt – plain and simple – never been done successfully….Also, why do you feel Cam was struggling? his stats are better than anybody in our bullpen and we trade him for essentially nobody that can help right now as we dont even know who the PTBNL is

        • Caminero was getting awfully lucky with respect to that ERA given how often the ball was hit hard off of him, and how many times he’d be pulled so someone else could clean up his mess. Yeah, he’s dominant when he’s on, but we really do have better, more consistent options to fill his role already with the organization.

      • Camaniero is only one piece of the puzzle and great job and blaming cutch on all of the team’s woes…ill bet the cubs and cardinals would still be in their perspective places if they had cutch having a bad year because they are both organizations interested in winning a championship over controlability

        • The team didn’t decide to retool arbitrarily. Look at their record. Look at how many teams are ahead of them. Look at their playoff odds. If Cutch plays like Cutch, the team likely has more wins and is in actual contention. Liriano, too. I don’t see how you can look at this team and say Cutch and Liriano being bad this year doesn’t have anything to do with their deadline decisions.

          • The team was on an 18-9 run up to the day Melanco was traded, best record in baseball during that stretch. They have crashed since the moves.

  4. I would want Caminero over Locke! When will they ever get rid of this kid! They are going to have him as a 5th starter again next year! It’s one thing to tank but get rid of that worthless SOB! At least Cam had 4-5 years of control unless they figured he was losing his control.

    • And this is fine. It’s better to recognize this now and get some building blocks for next year.

  5. I actually liked Cam and didn’t have the feeling of dread most did when he entered the game. When he was on, he looked like a future closer. When he was off, he just looked like every other pitcher not named Cole/Taillon.

      • says the guy who endorsed a watson/felize closer – only difference is Cam was 100+ with almost all of his fastballs and could easliy get himself out of jams even self created

  6. Is Schugel still on his ten day time out? Partch up seems like NH really wanting to show off how many bad decisions he made last winter.

  7. Not sure why there is any comments on this. Caminero clearly isn’t turning stuff into reliable bullpen spot so he’s fully expendable. With Watson Feliz bastardo and rivero it’s also clear caminero was 5th option in this pen. Most fans wanted caminero waived in May and now everyone is commenting like he’s goose gossage. I guess it’s “in” to tar and feather the front office so logic be damned.

    • Agreed. After he hit batters in the head everyone wanted him out. Way to turn him into something before the offseason.

    • so, cmat, since you have everything figured out…our bullpen is completely blown up at this point with camaniero, feliz, bastardo, melancon all already gone or will be gone next year….u cant think these cheap bast@rds will keep around bastardo at $6m

      • We have four solid arms under contract next year (Watson, Nicasio, Bastardo, Rivero) and several other somewhat viable internal options. Getting rid of a guy who was worse than all four of those guys isn’t exactly “blowing up the bullpen.”

        • You know, i have control over my socks over the next several years, however, if they are crumby socks that fall apart, who cares how long i can control them? As I previously said, Darkstone, if an ESPY or championship banner for ‘Controlability’ is ever created, the bucs will win hands down. We play in the NL Central, so, you need to compare every move we make vs the Cubs and Cardinal moves that is the reality

          • I don’t see how you can look at those four guys, what they’ve done as relievers, what kind of stuff they have, and say we don’t have four solid arms already on next year’s roster. Throw in some of the depth guys who have shown promise, and you’ve got the makings of a ‘pen which only needs maybe one more arm.

            That’s hardly blown up, is the entire point.

          • Caminero isn’t as good or as reliable as any of the four I listed, and unlike several of the lesser options, could not be optioned to AAA while he was struggling. His years of control are irrelevant.

        • so what? even $2m for a guy that most of you wanted run out of town last year and now are gleefully accepting back into the fold for the remainder of this year and next….so what?

          I actually wanted them to sign bastardo in the offseason and was pretty much shamed out of the thread….i guess its good they let him go, because, they would have had nobody for the mets to unload on us for the Niese fiasco….when will the bucs learn to not deal with the mets….Davis+Niese=2 absolute busts

  8. This implies that every NL team and all of the AL teams with worse records than Seattle passed on him, right? That seems a little odd to me given his upside.

    • That’s correct. If someone claims a particular player then the Pirates can either let them go to the claiming team for the salary owed, trade with the claiming team (for like 48 hours, I think) for the player, or pull the player back from waivers if a trade can’t be worked out. Most are placed on waivers and most of the claimed players are pulled back.

  9. Good move. Let’s face it, the Pirates are unlikely to make the playoffs and AC is too inconsistent to keep. This clears up a roster spot for Rule 5.

    • yea, mebbe we can protect one of our top 100s so that we can package them in ANOTHER salary dump next year πŸ™‚

  10. A team can’t survive this type of player turnover and its finally caught up to the Buccos. They have to be willing to invest in the players they fix Happ, Blanton etc… and stop thinking they can always pull players off of the scrap pile and make things work. Locke has to go, horribly inconsistent, and Kuhl, Brault etc… need an honest opportunity. This season is most likely dust and it’s become painful to watch and hope for the old Buccos to reappear,

  11. Another trade for NH to show us he is all in for this team. That player to be named later would help this team going forward and were all about making this team better right now.

  12. NH, ooppsss, I mean Tedwins, needs to go to bed now, late here in Singapore, I’ll annoy you folks tomorrow with my consistent support of the management team and will roll my eyes and respond nicely to dissent πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ Seriously, have a great Saturday in the USA folks, thumbs up πŸ™‚

        • Figure it out tomorrow who you are and aggravating me about Financial flexibility, unless it is just a coincidence as I get that 40 times a day on another site mate πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ Have a great night, computer shut down now πŸ™‚

    • Don’t forget about Edgar Santana. He has only a brief amount of experience in AAA so far but may be ready for a shot anyhow.

      • I think we can agree that one of these guys should get a shot, has to be better than adding another lefty, especially when that lefty is locke.

        • I get the hatred about Locke and the cheap shots at me for suggesting he has value… But the folks you are suggesting our lottery tickets and Locke can really help if one of the starters gets hurt in the next 1/3 of the year…. I realise, nobody else gets me πŸ™‚

          • I rather go with one or more of Kuhl, Brault, Williams, Duncan, or he who shall not be named since he will forever be linked with the shameless Liriano salary dump. Why go for mediocre help at best when you can go for at worst mediocre help but with a chance at better then that help.

            • I get that….. Kuhl, I think will be part of the equation during the stretch drive… perhaps one of the other two (Brault/Williams) can be significant, I get all of this (except Duncan in 2016)… I’m tired and irritable, so sorry, I just still see value in Locke… good night mate πŸ™‚

          • I still think he has value in the pen. If he could find his lost curve he might be servicable again. I just don’t want to see him start again in 2016. We have better options.

        • Agreed. Time for Locke to move back to New Hampshire. He earned enough in his playing days to live comfortably for the rest of his days, cruising around in his Camaro with t-tops with his mullet flowing in the wind.

    • He is interesting to me, but to me, who cares right πŸ™‚ :)?….I see this as just settling us down for a run who the coach and mgmt trust…. gives us depth with Locke, can never have enough lefties, and I think makes us better when one of the kids comes up… It doesn’t have to be complicated… to me it is just Locke over AC….

  13. Odd timing. If they were going to move on from Caminero they should have done it a few months ago probably mid May before he burned up some more negative WPA and melted down a bunch of times. At this point why not hold onto him for another cheap pre ARB year in 2017 and see if you can get him back on track.

    • I disagree, but I don’t claim to be an expert, AC had a nice/very nice 2015, had horrifying struggles during 2016… battled back and became ok, not what you trust in high leverage situations to me, and now we got something for him when spots are important, makes sense to me….

      • Perhaps. My argument isn’t so much moving on from Caminero as it is waiting all season to do it. At this point you are 3 weeks from roster expansion. Why not just option Hughes to Indy if you need a roster spot?

        • Yup…hmmmm….Well that is certainly a very good / thoughtful point… Assume, who knows, they just don’t trust him and glad to get prospects to leverage what we lost during black (to some, not me) Monday August 1st…. I get it, I can’t say I’m right, I just lost faith in him and glad we did this deal, but I get called NH a lot on sites, so there is that… though I’m taller and older πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚

    • John – if he was pitching effectively, why trade him at all? He made himself expendable by falling down the rabbit hole.

      • of course, no other way to do it in this period…. team picks the guy, they talk, no deal, then the team pulls him back or just lets him go… easy, peasy…

        • Jim Bowden
          ESPN Senior Writer

          Mariners claimed Arquimedes Caminero on trade waivers and then worked out a trade instead of him clearing waivers and then trading for him according to league sources. Caminero had not allowed a run in 15 of his last 20 appearances. His average fastball is close to 98 mph

  14. Broken record tedwins and this is tongue in cheek folks πŸ™‚ :)…. The AC trade is all about keeping Locke on the team and moving him to the BP and balancing out the prospects for Nova, they just go directly to NYC….We will never get rid of Locke, there will be WW3 and nuclear destruction for all, except for rats, roaches, and Jeff Locke taking the ball for the Bucs πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚

  15. Nice trade, Locke, though everyone hates him except intellectually challenged Tedwins, has a spot in BP for depth…. then, as I posted earlier, we just sent the return from Seattle to NYC to settle the Nova trade, kinda kidding πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚

  16. The Liriano trade messed me up so much that, for a second, I thought the trade was Caminero and a PTBNL going to Seattle..

  17. This season is reminding me of 2012…has a similar feel, but for different reasons. The scary thing is we don’t know what PTBNL our genius GM will agree to or has already agreed to send to the Yankees. Based on recent trades of his, it may be Keller, Hayes, or Kingham. Or all three!!

    • I stated previously that I thought it was either Keller or Heinz and Polo or Barnes. Based on prior trade and what Cashman has gotten for his players you have to assume he raped the Pirates as well.

      • Doubt it’s anybody like Keller, Hinsz, Kingham or Hayes. If it was, NY wouldn’t need time to scout them. Barnes or Polo wouldn’t be a big loss, although I don’t really see the point of adding Nova at all.

      • If it’s Keller or Hinsz or even Polo NH needs to be fired immediately. Barnes is probably even too much but I could see it being someone like that possibly.

          • Read it already. No offense but doesn’t really address my point. Will you really be “thanking” NH if one of the pieces is Keller or Hinsz. Probably a moot issue, I’d be shocked if that happened.

          • Rosenthal must be related to Neal….that article is a joke….isn’t NH the guy who gave Liriano that contract, when Liriano has never put 2-3 good years together consecutively in his entire career? Because of the bad contract that NH extended Liriano, we lose two good prospects in the process of ridding ourselves of Neal’s mistake…

            • And because he didn’t offer Happ the same deal he is a terrible GM… and Rosenthal is only the most respected writer in MLB…

            • Who was booing the Liriano 3 year contract when it was signed? I remember universal accord that it w as s a good deal. Liriano was responsible for not adapting to changed circumstances of umps not calling the low strIke and batters not swinging at his low slider. The contract went bad. Kudos to NH for reacting promptly to the change of circumstances.

          • This article, like most defending Huntington fails to understand why the fanbase is unhappy. Reason one is optics. Reason two is because the players were traded away well under their perceived value. All star closers should get you more in return than one major league reliever. 2 quality prospects should get you more than a AAA pitcher. You shouldn’t pay top dollar for reclamation projects

            • This is nothing but an opinion. An uninformed one IMO. Reverio is a young successful high upside reliever with quality MLB experience. And we got him for 5 years.

              Hearn was rated by Fangraphs as The Nationals 9th best prospect, before the broken foot, and his use so far this season as a reliever.
              Clearly you and many others can’t distinguish what is and what isn’t a good deal.

              • Rivero owns a near 5 ERA and hasn’t been in the league for even 2 seasons. If that’s success, I might want to try my hand at this baseball thing.

                Prospect lists change all the time. The most recent is the most relevant. Players rightfully drop on lists all the time. Look at Luis Heredia. Citing an old list is useless. You’ve done nothing to back your assertion that I’m wrong

            • Forgot you were the expert on trades, value and talent evaluations. You seem to hate the fact that others have opinions. This is meant for Gallatine

              • I see what Chapman and Miller get on the market and it’s clear that we were undercompensated, and that’s not arguable. I see us acquire a near 5 ERA starter for only a PTBNL, but yet we have to pay other teams in prospects to take our 5 ERA pitcher. And Liriano had a good track record recently too. Teams will pay for that the same way that we’ve acquired those reclamation projects for years

      • Hopefully it’s Barnes and or prospects like him. Keller is top 5, so he’s not part of this. Heinz & Polo, while less than steller, have high upsides IMO, so one hopes they also are not part of this.

        • Barnes alone would be an over pay for Nova….a gross overpay….Nova is terrible and has always been well below average his entire career….why we traded for him, instead of just going with the young starters next year…only NH can answer…I guess he plans on making the same mistakes next year…

            • Because they are so expensive, we should fall in line and pay a high price for mediocrity? Great idea. That kind of thinking will never lead to a championship. Ask Uncle Neil at your next family gathering to make a deal that will actually make the team better.

              • Still feeling like Barnes – who is a Longshot to make the League – for Nova when we have a shot at the Wildcard is a terrible deal?

                Donald you really need to work on your reading & analytics. It’s not that I am right and you are wrong, ot that i am smarter than you.. It’s that I read a ton, and analyse that info in agragate to develop opinions based on current facts, instead of the past and emotions.

      • It’ll be 2 Rule 5 eligible guys. Barnes is the only one you listed who is Rule 5 eligible. I’m guessing the Yanks get to choose 2 from Barnes, Wood, Weiss and Willie Garcia.

      • Will you guys relax on this? It’s not freakin Keller or Hinsz. You are just manufacturing arguments for the hell of it.

      • If you look at the last two trades the Pirates have made with the Yankees, how can you say it was the Pirates that got raped?

    • That’s because they tanked 2012 and they are tanking 2016 right in front love your face. Freese, Feliz, S-Rod, Joyce, and “maybe” Vogie will be shipped out by months end when they “start” another collapse whiCH is already happening. Bring on that TOP 10 pick!

  18. Addition by subtraction….Caminero is a classic example of why velocity alone is overrated and overvalued. Now do the right thing and DFA Locke or trade him for a bag of balls. He’s a bad Pitcher with a bad attitude, seldom owns his poor performance.

    • I agree with the first part, disagree with the second. Locke has always stood in there and taken interviews. this last week was the first time I’ve ever heard an excuse, and I think he was being honest and also showing his frustration. He might be a bad pitcher, but the guy has always burned to win. He just can’t. (Disclosure: I’ve always liked the guy, even when he sucked I thought he gave 100%, it has just been 100% of not good enough.)

      • He blamed his poor performance on being used sporadically of late…when your ERA is almost 5.50, you can’t blame anyone or anything for your poor performance – and need to be thankful that NH still keeps him on the major league roster, when most teams would have rid themselves of Locke two years ago….

        • That’s the first time ever, though. He blamed his poor performance in that one game. Over five years as a Pirate, he’s done it once.

          The guy isn’t very good, but he’s been a standup player his whole career. He’s frustrated and doesn’t have a real answer. You can slag him for that 15 seconds, but you’d be wrong.

  19. What I saw this year from Caminero was a pitcher whose fastball, when he got it over, had no movement. MLB hitters can hit straight heat!

  20. Would rather have moved on from Hughes. He has been terrible this year and will not be worth a 2nd Arb year salary next year. Same goes for Locke. As a pre-arb player this year and next it would have been worthwhile to see if Caminero could turn things around by spring training next year and if not then cut him loose.

  21. Pirates to get a ‘conditional’ player also. There have been other deals for such a player but what restrictions are there?

    I am shocked by this move. Thought Arq was highly valued.

  22. Uh … sure? This means 33% turnover in the pitching staff from just last week. I assume the player(s) coming back will be similar quality to what the Yankees pluck from the Pirates for Nova.

    • A salary dump? He is only owed $170,000. He has no place in the bullpen. You can’t put him in a high leverage situation so what use is he.

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