Prospect Watch: Glasnow’s Rehab Doesn’t Go Well; Terrific Start from Brault

P2 Top 30

A look at how the current top 30 prospects did today. If a player is in the majors and loses his prospect eligibility, he will be removed. Everyone below him will be shifted up a spot, and a new player will be added to the bottom of the list. If a player is out for the season, he will be removed and everyone below him will move up a spot. Removing these guys doesn’t mean they have lost prospect status. It is just an attempt to get 30 active prospects on the list. Rankings are from the 2016 mid-season update, and links on each name go to their Pirates Prospects player pages.

We’re working on a solution for the PHP stat codes not working in the app.

1. Tyler Glasnow, RHP, Pirates -[insert_php] include_once (‘./p2-stats/stats_functions.php’);
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2. Austin Meadows, CF, Indianapolis – [insert_php] display_top30(640457,’B’,’20160814′);
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3. Josh Bell, 1B, Indianapolis – [insert_php] display_top30(605137,’B’,’20160814′);
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4. Kevin Newman, SS, Altoona – [insert_php] display_top30(621028,’B’,’20160814′);
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5. Mitch Keller, RHP, West Virginia -[insert_php] display_top30(656605,’P’,’20160814′);
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6. Nick Kingham, RHP, GCL Pirates – [insert_php] display_top30(592468,’P’,’20160814′);
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7.Cole Tucker, SS, Bradenton – [insert_php] display_top30(657061,’B’,’20160814′);
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8. Chad Kuhl, RHP, Pirates – [insert_php] display_top30(641771,’P’,’20160814′);
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9. Will Craig, 3B, Morgantown –  [insert_php] display_top30(643269,’B’,’20160814′);
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10. Steven Brault, LHP, Indianapolis – [insert_php] display_top30(643230,’P’,’20160814′);
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11. Ke’Bryan Hayes, 3B, West Virginia -[insert_php] display_top30(663647,’B’,’20160814′);
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12. Elias Diaz, C, Indianapolis – [insert_php] display_top30(553869,’B’,’20160814′);
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13. Clay Holmes, RHP, Altoona – [insert_php] display_top30(605280,’P’,’20160814′);
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14. Yeudy Garcia, RHP, Bradenton -[insert_php] display_top30(650817,’P’,’20160814′);
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15. Gage Hinsz, RHP, West Virginia  – [insert_php] display_top30(656543,’P’,’20160814′);
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16. Trevor Williams, RHP, Indianapolis – [insert_php] display_top30(592866,’P’,’20160814′);
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17. Alen Hanson, 2B, Indianapolis – [insert_php] display_top30(593700,’B’,’20160814′);
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18. Tito Polo, OF, Bradenton – [insert_php] display_top30(622738,’B’,’20160814′);
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 19. Stephen Tarpley, LHP, Bradenton – [insert_php] display_top30(605501,’P’,’20160814′);
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20. Brandon Waddell, LHP, Altoona – [insert_php] display_top30(663399,’P’,’20160814′);
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21. Tyler Eppler, RHP, Altoona -[insert_php] display_top30(621169,’P’,’20160814′);
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22. Max Moroff, 2B, Indianapolis -[insert_php] display_top30(621559,’B’,’20160814′);
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23. Taylor Hearn, LHP, West Virginia – [insert_php] display_top30(621368,’P’,’20160814′);
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24. Adrian Valerio, SS – Bristol – [insert_php] display_top30(650832,’B’,’20160814′);
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25. Braeden Ogle, LHP, GCL Pirates – [insert_php] display_top30(669180,’P’,’20160814′);
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26. Kevin Kramer, 2B, Bradenton -[insert_php] display_top30(596012,’B’,’20160814′);
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27. Travis MacGregor, RHP, GCL Pirates – [insert_php] display_top30(669740,’P’,’20160814′);
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28. Max Kranick, RHP, GCL Pirates – [insert_php] display_top30(668820,’P’,’20160814′);
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29. Frank Duncan, RHP, Indianapolis – [insert_php] display_top30(641538,’P’,’20160814′);
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30. Dovydas Neverauskas, RHP, Indianapolis – [insert_php] display_top30(596720,’P’,’20160814′);
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P2 Top Performers

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Prospect-Watch-Indy

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Indianapolis lost 1-0 to Lehigh Valley on Sunday. Steven Brault was on the mound, trying to get back on track after a couple poor outings in a row. In his previous two games combined, he allowed nine runs on 14 hits and eight walks in 7.2 innings. He had control/command issues both of those games, not only the walks, but getting too much of the plate when he did throw strikes, which usually happened when he got to a three ball count.

On Sunday, Brault was back to the pitcher we saw just a few weeks ago when he threw back-to-back six shutout inning performances. He had a no-hitter in this game until two outs in the fifth and lost it when both Austin Meadows and Pedro Florimon lost a shallow pop up to left field in the sun. During a night game, it would have been a routine catch for either of them.

In the sixth, Lehigh Valley picked up a legit hit on a low liner to right field that Willy Garcia almost made a shoestring catch on. That was followed by a slow grounder by Max Moroff at second base, and then a well-hit grounder through the left side for the first run. That would end up being the only run and the only hits off Brault.

In seven innings, he gave up one walk, struck out three and had a 7:4 GO/AO ratio, with a lot of soft contact. He threw 63 of his 95 pitches for strikes and his biggest issue seemed to be a lot of foul balls with two strikes. On his only walk, Brault threw a beautiful 1-2 fastball over the inner half of the plate to a lefty, but didn’t get the call. You could tell he wasn’t happy with the call (rightfully so) and then missed badly on the next two pitches. So after walking four batters in each of his last two starts (totaling 7.2 innings), his only walk over seven innings in this game only happened because the umpire missed possibly his best pitch of the game. A great outing by Brault and a nice bounce back from two poor outings.

Josh Bell went 0-for-4 with three strikeouts in this game, which also happens to be his 24th birthday. He came into the day with a .226/.327/.290 slash line in 26 games since being sent down by the Pirates. Austin Meadows had the only positive day on offense with a single and a walk in four trips to the plate. Indianapolis had three hits total and from the walk by Meadows in the third until his single in the ninth, 17 straight batters were retired.

Prospect-Watch-Altoona-Curve

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ALTOONA, PA – Tyler Glasnow made a rehab start for the Altoona Curve on Sunday night, his first start since July 23rd against the Phillies for the Pirates. Although he was scheduled for four innings or 65 pitches, he went three innings tonight, giving up two earned runs and three walks while striking out five batters.

Glasnow began the game extremely strong, throwing 12 pitches in the first inning, ten of them for strikes. He threw nine fastballs and three curveballs, and he got two strikeouts (one with the fastball swinging and one with the curve ball swinging).

In the second inning, Reading’s Dylan Cozens (who has the second most home runs in the Eastern League, 33) homered on a line drive to left-center field. It was the first pitch of the inning and Cozens looked to be sitting fastball then teed off on it. Glasnow proceeded to walk two batters in the inning after the lead-off home run, and Reading easily stole a base on Glasnow/Stewart. Stewart really didn’t have much of a chance to get the runner at second base. Glasnow induced a 5-4-3 double play to end the inning without allowing another run.

The third got a little interesting for Glasnow. He threw three pitches – a 90 MPH change-up for a strike, 94 MPH fastball for a ball, and another 90 MPH change-up for another strike. With a 1-2 count, the Curve’s trainer quickly made his way to the mound, followed by Cora and Meccage, to visit Glasnow at the mound. Glasnow pretty much shook them off, telling them he was okay, and he continued on pitching. After the visit, he struck out the batter he was facing. He then walked the next batter on five pitches, missing pretty bad with his fastball location after going ahead 0-1. Glasnow allowed a line drive to left field that got passed a diving Barrett Barnes, scoring the second run against him. Glasnow then struck out the next two batters he faced to end the third inning.

Glasnow’s start started extremely strong but was wavering throughout, showing some inconsistencies with both his fastball and curve ball at times. In that first inning, the stuff was quality, and he was throwing a lot of strikes. After the first inning, he walked three batters and was close to even on strikes-to-balls.

In that third inning, especially after the visit to the mound by the Curve’s trainer, Glasnow looked pretty uncomfortable, often shaking his arm or seemingly trying to loosen up his shoulder. There is no confirmation of any sort of injury, but it did just seem strange. Glasnow was not available for comment after the game, but Curve manager Joey Cora said that he will be going back to Pittsburgh to be checked out on Monday.

Brandon Waddell was scheduled to enter in the fifth for the Curve, and he quickly turned in back-to-back 1-2-3 innings in the fifth and sixth innings. The next two innings were different for Waddell, as he walked four batters and let up some hard hit balls. His command looked to escape him in the eighth inning, and he was removed with two runners on.

Waddell ended up allowed four runs, two of them earned, in 3.2 innings pitched. He got ground balls and struck out four batters, but the four walks in those two innings were not very good. It is hard to take a lot of stock in an outing when a starter has to enter a game in relief, even if he is well aware of when he will be entering. For Waddell, the command issues crept back up, but coming in as a reliever could’ve played a role in that.

Pitching Coach Justin Meccage confirmed after the game that it was the first time that Brandon Waddell ever came into a game out of the bullpen, and it probably affected him routine-wise.

“I think so,” Meccage said when asked if entering mid-game may have affected him. “Routine-wise, I think it does. It’s the first time in his life that he ever came out of the bullpen. It’s a good experience for him, because you never know when you might have to do it. I thought his first two innings were very good. He got some frustration involved after [a big error], and he tried to make a perfect pitch to get out of those situations. His pitch count got elevated.”

The error he was talking about was when Edwin Espinal fell on his way step on first base for what would have been the final out of the seventh inning; however, the runner was safe and two unearned runs ended up scoring.

Curve manager Joey Cora wasn’t down on Waddell’s outing, but he said that the walks are definitely something he needs to work on.

“That’s the thing that, when he’s going good, he doesn’t walk people,” Cora said. “When he’s not going good, he walks people. Tonight he walked four guys. At times he looked really good and at other times he didn’t. That’s the way Waddell’s season has been so far.”

In the bottom of the first inning after Glasnow sent down Reading 1-2-3, Eric Wood blasted a solo home run to left field to give the Curve an early lead. It was Wood’s 16th home run of the season, surpassing his career total of 15 home runs between 2012-2015.

In the sixth inning, Barrett Barnes crushed a pitch from Reading starter John Richy over the left field wall for his third home run in five games played. It was Barnes’ fourth home run of the season, as he went on a homer-less drought between May 3rd and August 7th. With three hits tonight, he raised his batting average back to .302 on the season after batting .221 on May 12th.

Edwin Espinal did add two hits with a double. Shortstop Kevin Newman had his second night off in a row in order to stack days of rest on top of each other leading up to the home stretch of the season.

In other notes, Chris Stewart will fly to Portland, Maine to continue with the team during their road trip. RHP Jason Creasy will be activated from the disabled list before Tuesday’s doubleheader, and the plan is for him to pitch 1 or 2 innings. -Sean McCool

Prospect-Watch-Bradenton

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Bradenton lost 11-9 to Fort Myers and had to go to infielder Chase Simpson in the ninth to finish off the game, despite the score being so close. He walked two batters, but left the bases loaded, giving Bradenton a chance at a comeback. The game started with Stephen Tarpley on the mound and he got roughed up, partially due to poor control. In 4.1 innings, he allowed six runs on eight hits and five walks. Jose Regalado threw 2.2 shutout innings following Tarpley, then Luis Heredia came on for the final two innings. The problem was that he wasn’t any better than Tarpley, giving up five runs on four hits and two walks in 1.1 innings. Simpson got the last two outs without allowing a run.

The Marauders had some nice offense from their infielder. Kevin Kramer drove in four runs, collecting two doubles, along with a run scored. He now has 25 doubles on the season. Connor Joe hit his fifth homer, while also driving in four runs. He added two singles as well. Pablo Reyes started at shortstop and had two hits, two runs, a walk and his 11th stolen base. The only problem with their big games on offense, is that all three of them committed an error in the game. Tito Polo had two hits, a run scored, and his 35th stolen base.

Prospect-Watch-WV-Power

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CHARLESTON, WV– Logan Hill continued his hot streak on an otherwise uneventful afternoon. After Logan Sendelbach pitched a perfect first inning, Hill uncorked his sixth home run of the season to put the Power on top early. Sendelbach couldn’t hold the lead, though, and the Power offense wasted several promising opportunities until a late rally pulled them within striking distance.

Hill struggled after his mid-May demotion, but in the last two months (including today’s contest when he went 3-for-4), his slash line is .319/.389/.553 with 22 runs and 18 RBI. He has reached base in all but two of the Power’s games in August.

At first, Hill’s homer looked like a routine warning track line drive, but the slight breeze and Hill’s strength coaxed the ball just past the outfield wall. “He’s got really good bat speed,” commented hitting coach Ryan Long. “He’s learning to control his strength.”

Jordan George, celebrating exactly one month with the Power, collected two doubles and two walks, although he never scored. George has been on a tear since being called up. He only hit .267 in his 23 games in Morgantown and is now hitting .321 with the Power.

Logan Sendelbach looked sharp early, striking out four in the first three innings, but as his pitch count crept up, he struggled. The third trip through the lineup for the Delmarva Shorebirds proved especially difficult for Sendelbach. In the fifth and sixth innings, the team roughed up the Power starter to the tune of four runs on five hits (including a two-run home run).

Sendelbach relies more on his pitch movement than velocity, and Delmarva has seen his pitches two other times this season. In his last start against Delmarva, Sendelbach couldn’t get out of the first inning, giving up three runs on five hits. His location wasn’t as sharp in the later innings today, and the Shorebirds took advantage. In the last three innings of his start, Delmarva lofted four fly ball outs in addition to the home run and a triple.

The Power made things interesting when they loaded the bases with one out in the sixth, but Casey Hughston and Tyler Filliben struck out to end the danger. Hughston’s trio of strikeouts brought his season total to 124 in only 83 games.

In the seventh, the Power pulled within a run of the Delmarva lead. John Bormann led off with a single, and after strikeouts by Alfredo Reyes and Logan Ratledge, Mitchell Tolman doubled to bring Bormann home. Tolman scored on the next pitch when Logan Hill lined a single to the outfield.

Mitchell Tolman had a chance to tie the game with a deep drive in the ninth, but right fielder Gerrion Grim tracked down the ball easily. The Power have a day off tomorrow and then start a road series in Lexington. – Abigail Miskowiec

Prospect-Watch-Morgantown

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Morgantown went into the NYPL All-Star break with a 2-1 loss in Brooklyn, dropping them to a 25-31 record. Stephan Meyer started and threw shutout ball for his first five innings. In the sixth, he allowed two consecutive singles to start the inning, with one being an infield hit. All it took after that was a ground out, a wild pitch and a fielder’s choice to bring home both runs without the ball leaving the infield. That ended his night with two runs over 5.1 innings, with four hits, three walks and three strikeouts. Despite the walks, he still threw 56 of his 86 pitches for strikes. Meyer also posted a 6:3 GO/AO ratio.

The Black Bears got on the board first with their lone run in the fourth. Arden Pabst hit a two-out triple, then scored on a fielding error that allowed Sandy Santos to reach base. Stephen Alemais and Albert Baur each had two hits. Alemais stole his eighth base of the season.

Morgantown is now off until Wednesday. When they return to play, they will have 20 games over the last 20 days of the season.

Prospect-Watch-Bristol
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BRISTOL, VA – The Pirates split a double-header tonight, getting a rough start from their starter in the first game, and a solid outing from their starter in the second game. Ike Schlabach was one of the main guys I was looking forward to seeing on this trip. He’s very raw right now, as a tall, skinny lefty with a funky delivery that has a lot of moving parts.

Tonight he was up in the zone and got hit pretty hard, with three home runs allowed. That’s very difficult, as Boyce Cox Field is deep, and has really high fences all around. He struggled with his fastball command, and couldn’t get ahead of hitters most of the night, leaving in the fourth inning.

There were some things to like. He had good deception because of the funky delivery, making his 89-91 MPH fastball play up. He also had a few fastballs that worked well down in the zone, with good angle. When his stuff was on, he looked sharp. But he was inconsistent tonight, and that’s going to be the case for a guy at his age (19), with his current mechanics, until he gets comfortable with his size.

The Bristol offense didn’t do much in the first game, outside of Henrry Rosario. He had two hits, both of them home runs, giving him three total since his promotion to the new level earlier this month. Rosario is a small player who doesn’t project to do much in full season ball, and probably won’t make it to the upper levels, but his season this year has been fun to watch, and he’s looking like a great lower level depth guy. Garrett Brown also picked up two hits, showing off his plus speed. He also started in center field, and displayed an average arm at best. He’s got one tool, which is his speed, and that will make it difficult for him to become a prospect unless he develops his hitting skills or adds some power to justify playing in a corner.

The second game saw Matt Eckelman throw five shutout innings, giving up three hits, one walk, and striking out nine. He ran into problems in the first inning, throwing 30 pitches and almost getting pulled due to his single inning limit. He got his final batter out on pitch 30, and kept his start alive. The long inning was due to pitching deep into counts, rather than giving up a lot of walks and hits (he had one of each, and the inning was extended with an error).

Eckelman settled down after that, showing off a 91-93 MPH fastball that hit 94 once. He also had a good curve and a split changeup, relying on both pitches heavily. He had good command of his pitches, and good control outside of the first inning, with that inning being uncharacteristic of him. His fastball was elevated at times, but for the most part it was down in the zone with good angle, working the outer half of the plate.

The offense scored two runs, and Bristol won thanks to the solid pitching from Eckelman, plus a good relief appearance from Evan Piechota, who gave up just a solo homer in the ninth inning. Adrian Valerio struck out twice in the second game, showing poor recognition on curveballs, and not a lot of speed down the line. I’ll be featuring him this week, but today didn’t look good from the offensive side. I’ve seen better out of him in the past, with a line drive stroke to the gaps. He is also very smooth defensively, and while he didn’t put on the highlight reel performance that Stephen Alemais did a few weeks ago (he didn’t have as many opportunities), he does look very solid at the shortstop position. – Tim Williams

Prospect-Watch-GCL

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The GCL Pirates have off on Sunday.

Prospect-Watch-DSL

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The DSL Pirates have off on Sunday.

  • The Pirates are well on their way to having a very good top 3 rotation. If Glasnow can truly reach his upside, this rotation will be one of the best top 4 in baseball. But something about Glasnow just has me thinking he ends up as a future closer. I honestly hope I’m wrong, I truly do. I guess we’ll see how it all plays out.

    • Yeah, back end reliever wouldn’t be a popular opinion here, but based on what I’ve seen, I think that’s where he ends up. It’s not just the talent in the arm, but what’s upstairs, and Taillon >> Glasnow in spades when it comes to maturity and smarts.

  • Great win by the bucs today taking another series…..
    Wondered if anybody else out there has concerns about Glasnow’s delivery time to the plate…..listening to the phillies broadcast of his last game, they said he was in the 2 second + range which is why they ran and ran on him…i saw a couple of his minor league starts and i dont remember him being abused like that…if he really is in the 2 second range in the majors, he better keep peeps off the bases or they will annihilate him….if bucs could give glasnow and newman for archer, i would make that trade in a second

  • I’m not saying PP overrates all the prospects, for the most part they’re pretty accurate and that’s saying something as it’s extremely difficult to project what these kids will amount to. They’ve been wrong the other way as well, with underrating Chad Kuhl…I know, SSS, but he certainly looks like someone that has a much higher ceiling than a #4 starter.

    • Tonight? 100%.

      Overall? His first few games were to the tune of a 4 ERA with higher FIP and xFIP. Classic back end SP type numbers.

      Is this start the true talent, or is it showing he has the stuff but is inconsistent? Time will tell, but he’s been far from a sure fire mid rotation arm thus far.

      • 6 starts, 4 quality starts…To me that sure doesn’t seem like a #4 starter. If he can get that 94-95 mph sinker to work low in the zone, coupled with a pretty good slide piece and they have a pretty damn good starter. Additionally, the kid isn’t scared of the big lights, as he went toe to toe with some pretty big names and didn’t blink.

        If you’re basing prospect status on upside, then this kid is undervalued on this site….

        • I agree with everything here. But that’s his ceiling. We do the rankings on likely upside, which still leaves a smaller percentage chance that he could go higher (which is where the working low in the zone, pretty good slider, etc come into play).

        • Quality starts, a more useless stat you cannot find.

          Im basing him on the totality of his AAA and MLB season this year. Non elite stuff, good command/control, not enough consistency unless you just ignore his flaws.

          If he can be at his best more often, he’s a SP. If his first 6 starts are indicative of him going forward, he’s a #4-5 for a non elite team. He’s gotta prove that change up can look like last night more often, otherwise he’s useless against lefties.

      • I agree. Eye test, he looks like a backend rotation guy. But that’s ok.

    • I’m pretty sure this site was on Kuhl as a legit prospect before just about anyone. For these other sources to say McGuire’s swing will need to be torn down just seems ridiculous to me. Everyone knows it takes catcher’s longer to develop at the plate and McGuire has never seemed completely overmatched yet. He has showed steady improvement this season and could repeat AA next year to start and still be at AAA as a 22 year old. Not many catchers do that.

      • I agree that last season when Kuhl broke out this site was all over it, but they also said scouts, GM’s were asking about him. They might have been the only baseball site to notice him prior to others, but they also follow prospects much more than any other Pirate site around….As for McGuire, I’ve seen him play a few times in Erie and his swing to me seems defensive, just looking to make any contact…He uses that approach in the Show and they will eat him up. Until he can show he can hit the ball with authority, he really doesn’t have much of a chance with big league pitching. They’re way too good and will get him out with high frequency.

        • Either way, if he would have stayed with the Pirates he is in a nice situation: learning behind a very good mlb catcher that is signed long term. He can take 2-3 years perfecting his game.

    • Kuhl reminds me of a young Jake Peavey…something about his windup and makeup

    • “They’ve been wrong the other way as well, with underrating Chad Kuhl…I know, SSS, but he certainly looks like someone that has a much higher ceiling than a #4 starter.”

      This is when I know we’re in a good spot with prospect rankings. When I’m told I overrate a prospect and underrate him at the same time, all because of the same rating.

      I take it you’ve missed all of the complaints about us overrating Kuhl in the past by calling him a starter?

      I do think he has a chance to be more. When I was in Indianapolis, I talked with a bunch of scouts who said he’s a #4, with a chance to go higher. I could see him being a solid #3 if his changeup and slider continue improving. We haven’t even seen his best yet in the majors.

      But yeah, it’s funny seeing this kind of stuff, where we’re accused of overrating and underrating the same prospect for the same rating.

  • Hey John, Connor Joe has been hitting very solid for a while now, but on defense he has struggled mightily. I remember when he was drafted that he also was a catcher? Wonder if they would revisit this or just do the Pedro and move him across the diamond.

    • He played first base all of last year and they planned to use him as a catcher after they drafted him, but his back injury prevented/canceled that move. He is hitting really well lately and taking some walks, though it’s important to remember he turns 24 on Tuesday, so he is up there for a High-A player.

  • Our upper level guys are starting to get bunched up. I wonder if it is time to jettison guys like Florimon and/or Ortiz to let someone from AA (like Barnes, Weiss, or Wood) move up – followed by someone from A+ moving up (like Kramer, Mathison, or Joe)

    • Until Joe figures it out defensively, he isn’t going anywhere.

      • Agree he is not a good fielder but I happen to think you can learn fielding at any level. Hitting you have to be in sync with the league. If you show you are ready to hit, you should be promoted before you learn bad habits.

  • Good to see Brault bounce back after two poor outings.

    Bad to see Tarpley be wild and lit up.

    Oh, the up and down world of following prospects. 🙂

  • BallHeadWonder
    August 14, 2016 2:49 pm

    Nice read on our departed Reese!!!

    Toronto Blue Jays: Scouting Report On C Reese McGuire – FanSided
    https://apple.news/ARPYbUi_EPs6-1xUnER4RCQ

    • The author of the article you linked said he believes McGuire’s swing will need to be torn down and completely made over to work at the big league level. If this is true, it makes it easier to understand why Pirates included him in the Liriano trade.

      • If true, that’s a damning indictment of the Pirates ability to develop hitting. Nobody was saying McGuire’s swing was fatally flawed coming out of the draft, after all. These were learned, and instructed, behaviors.

        • I said on this very site 2 years ago that he couldn’t hit and will never amount to a starter in the Show….You jumped all over me, as did others.

          Obviously, NH thinks he won’t make it.

        • Maybe McGuire is the outlier as the Pirates have shown they can develop hitters…Marte, Polanco, Meadows, Bell. Even Ramirez could rake.

        • Scott Kliesen
          August 14, 2016 7:11 pm

          Good point, NMR. Very possible Pirates had him learn to be a contact hitter at cost of power.

        • Austin Meadows, Josh Bell, Polanco, Marte, etc disagree…talk about being hyperbolic … “a damning indictment” … come on, man.

      • To be clear, this is someone I’ve never heard of, writing for Fansided, with about 330 Twitter followers. And we’re just taking this info as if it came from Callis, Mayo, BA, BP, or somewhere else that we’ve heard of before this link was posted?

        • Scott Kliesen
          August 15, 2016 5:38 am

          I never said what he said was true. I said IF what he says is true, than it makes it easier to understand why Pirates included McGuire in with Liriano.

          Pretty clear though Pirates brass wasn’t as high on McGuire’s future as some are since he was traded away. Doesn’t mean either one is right. McGuire will decide that for himself.

          • That’s a really big “if”, considering the source. Who we don’t even know.

            • I’m just trying to connect the dots to understand what NH and his staff were thinking by including him in the deal. Because I think we can all agree on the surface, the trade looks very one sided in the Jays favor.

    • This line from the article really jumped out to me – “McGuire is completely off the radar of many scouts I’ve talked with simply due to the poor swing and what they see as irreparable habits worn into his swing muscle memory by this point.”

      I think this site grossly overrated McGuire and most of the posters on here bought in.

      • So another site writes something after a couple weeks or having him, and then you say the site that wrote this following statement in our mid-season update (which was followed by how young he is and there is time to improve) grossly over-rated him:

        “He also has some of the best catching defense in minor league baseball, and that defense will at least get him a backup catching job one day, and possibly even a starting job. The offensive numbers aren’t good right now”

        We literally said he might only be a backup and that’s due to his plus defense

        • The majority of articles I’ve read about McGuire are pretty much like that article. Catchers with his skill set have about a 1 in 5 chance of making it…When I say overrated, I’m talking about McGuire being the 6th best prospect in a very good and deep farm…

          • His defense will get him to the big leagues, his offense will dictate how good he becomes. He’s athletic and makes consistent contact, and he turned 21 in March. You’re watching a player who is trying to make contact do just that, except he’s making more solid contact this year than in the past. He has a career-high for extra base hits this season, while continuing to be among the youngest players in the league each year at a position where the bat always takes more time to develop. It’s ridiculous to think at 21 while holding his own in AA, he can’t make the majors based on his bat. He could catch in the majors right now if they needed him, regardless of his hitting

            • Why has he completely fallen off the radar from most scouts? If what you’re saying is true, then scouts would be all over him….

              “I think McGuire really could shoot for Girardi, but I think it’s also notable that for every five guys like Girardi, one has a multi-year career like he did. McGuire is completely off the radar of many scouts I’ve talked with simply due to the poor swing and what they see as irreparable habits worn into his swing muscle memory by this point.”

              • I never said he fell off the radar of most scouts. That’s hearsay from that article. I’ve never heard that before

              • You have no idea whatsoever if that is accurate.

                • Why would the author of this story just make that up? What does he gain from making stuff up? Not to mention it will destroy any credibility he has….

              • His poor swing and irreparable habits that led to low strikeout rates, decent walk rates over the past year, a good performance in the fall league at only 20 as a catcher, and solid year this year as a 21 year old in AA. I think he has a pretty good chance of his floor being comparable to Chris Stewart.

                • Yet with all that contact his BABIP is extremely low….Why? He doesn’t hit the ball with authority and never has…4 career minor league HR’s. The young narrative is an excuse. If I had a dollar for every time I heard that with a prospect that struggles, I could buy every subscriber on here a beer. Just because Diaz figured it out offensively, means McGuire will too. That’s not reasonable logic.

                  • Poor selection. He can make contact with anything, but swings at pitches he shouldn’t because he can make contact with them, rather than pitches he can drive.

                    • Your opinion, Tim….I just don’t see the ceiling with McGuire….You obviously see something else……

                    • I’m not really far off what everyone else has. I’ve got him as an average starter, fueled by defense, and trusting that he can hit enough to start. That last part is the key difference. I also think he could be an All-Star if the offense really clicks, but that’s in the same way I think Kuhl can be a #3 if everything comes together.

                      Part of my evaluation, and my lack of concern over his hitting at a young age, is because I see what catchers go through, both inside the locker room, and during practice. I don’t think people come close to appreciating just how much work goes into the defense and game calling. Next year I’m going to do a video where I shadow the catchers, and compare it to a regular position player. Regular position players are taking their second and third round of batting practice before the catchers even get their first, and they have to squeeze that in at the end of the day. This is why catchers develop the bats later, and why I’m not writing off McGuire right now.

                    • I’ve never seen anyone else write all-star and Reese McGuire….I haven’t seen many even suggest he will be a starter.

                    • I feel like you’re comparing likely upsides (where I wouldn’t write All-Star) to ceilings (where I’ve seen people write All-Star if he can hit, which is what I’m saying).

                      It’s kind of like your argument that Kuhl is better than a #4. I haven’t seen anyone say that for his likely upside, but I’ve talked to scouts who say #3 is his ceiling.

                    • I think you have to think of the McGuire trade in context. Cervelli and Stewart are both extended. Had the Bucs not extended Cervelli then the trade would not be a good idea IMHO. But with Diaz in the wings and two MLB catchers on roster McGuire becomes surplus.

                    • There’s also the context that, even with all of those catchers, the Pirates had Kratz/Fryer as their MLB combo a month ago. You can never have too much depth.

              • “Why has he completely fallen off the radar from most scouts? If what you’re saying is true, then scouts would be all over him….”

                I can say that he definitely hasn’t.

                • When he can drive the ball and stop playing pepper, let me know….At this stage, he can play pepper with AA kids….

          • Catch,
            Erik Kratz has 7 years of mlb experience even though his career line is .200/.248/.362…like John said, most scouts still rate him as the best defensive catcher in the minors and hes only 21 years old…he will make it to the majors…

            • I agree he will make the majors, but I don’t see him being a starter and his offense in my opinion is on par with Kratz, maybe flip the slug and OB….When he was drafted, his offense was questioned, and it still has yet to show, maybe it will….I just don’t see it. My entire point was McGuire being being the 6th ranked prospect in a very deep farm, which I questioned as being grossly overrated….Too me many prospect ranked below him have a chance to have a better MLB career than Reese McGuire.

              • agreed, Catch, the problem I had with the trade really was not about his value to the bucs, it was moreso his ‘perceived’ value which i believe could have translated in him bringing back far more in a bundled trade…if the bucs didnt want to pitch liriano anymore, just sit him or put him in the bullpen….teams eat these kinds of contracts all the time

                • How how exactly do you eat $18M…
                  Some of you folks are insane – selling McGuire for $18M is going to turn out to be the steal of the century.
                  Time to move on – we can revisit this when McGuire starts his first all star game.

                  • so, bruce, now that you see the garbage that is hutchinson and if youve peeked at liriano’s stats, here is your chance to come clean and admit that deal was 5hit

    • many questions about that trade.
      the pitcher added was utter subterfuge.
      sham of a mockery of traverse city

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