Ken Rosenthal is reporting that the trade talks between the Pittsburgh Pirates and New York Yankees for Gerrit Cole have cooled off since the winter meetings ended last Thursday.

There have been a lot of reports about possible players involved in this potential deal, including the Pirates trying to get Gleyber Torres, the top prospect from the Yankees and one of the top prospects in baseball. The potential trade seemed to heat up over the weekend, but it’s been relatively quiet since then. I wouldn’t say that this Rosenthal news means that a trade is dead, but it doesn’t appear to be happening anytime soon. If there are any other updates today, we will post them here.

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  1. I’m happy. IMO best to keep him, I want to see his best in Pirates uniform after drafting and watching him grow. The mentality of trade him or get nothing is real and I get that, but I also want to see our draft picks reach their pinnacle in PNC. I understand small ball and minor market economics but that isn’t enough for me…if we have to trade our homegrowns right before they become great thats just not going to cut it for this diehard fan…Sorry.

  2. Isn’t it possible that Cole might get a bigger return at the trade deadline? They may just be waiting to capitalize then. Maybe.

    • That’s a dangerous game to play.

      1)I can’t imagine 1.3 years of a player will be worth more than 2 years of that player.

      2) pitcher’s break. A lot. A tweaked knee on July 26th or a strained oblique on July 5th or a torn UCL in May ruins everything.

      If the direction is to rebuild, just do it in the winter.

      • I’ll disagree with 1) only because he’s a pitcher; a team acquiring a pitcher of Cole’s ability and contract situation is acquiring him for a playoff run as much or more than they are for 20 starts between April and July. I don’t think we’ve really seen much evidence at all of pitchers like this, including relievers, losing all that much inning-eater value.

  3. Disappointed to read this. Since Cole is a Boras client, long term will not be possible. The biggest return for Cole is now. Yes some may say at the trading deadline. But you never know what could happen. Look what happened in Baltimore today where their closer got injured. Tampa Bay always trades off their top pitcher for prospects who are ready to contribute. That’s what we should do. Unfortunately we don’t have a farm system like the Cardinals who always does well in the draft no matter where they finish.

    • That’s because the Pirates draft Will Craig, while the Cards don’t blink when opportunity to draft Devin Perez drops in their lap. Cards are just a much better run organization, from top to bottom. They win often, compete the vast majority of the time, and they seldom hit bottom….they are like the Steelers in football….

      • Will Craig. Man, he looked unimpressive on the videos I watched when he was drafted. Is there any positive feedback on him?

        • I mean… he has posted OBPs in the high 300s. Thats about the only good thing you can say about him, but that’s also the most important thing for a hitter to be able to do.

          He’s hardly a lost cause at this point, IMO

          • That’s because he walks a lot….he hasn’t shown enough power to justify his below average defense and lack of speed on the bases…lets face it, anyone with any sense saw that it was a poor pick when the Pirates selected him. He’s an AL East type of player – 1B/DH type. Pirates could have had a great SS prospect in Perez…..sigh….we need a new owner and GM…..

            • i thought the reports were that he was looking like on okay 1b, but whatever, i guess.

              but yeah… getting on base is really really important, and it’s the most important thing that a player can do.

              I don’t know much about Delvin Perez, but all i can see is that his stock has tanked, and just ranked as the Cards’ #21 prospect on fangraphs.

              i honestly bet that Will Craig has a better major league career than Delvin Perez, but it’s not like we know each other and will keep track of this over the next decade haha.

              i dont even like will craig that much, but i think the hate is going too far.

            • Yeah, that .203 avg that will Craig our up in rookie ball this year looks pretty bad. Oh, my bad. That was Delvin Perez. Yes, it’s Delvin. You’d think you’d know how to spell his name by now, as much as you post the same thing about him…over, and over, and over again. I’ve yet to see you acknowledge the fact that he failed a drug test right before being drafted, which caused his stock to slide. No, no need to worry about facts like that. Not when he’s already been enshrined in the hall of fame in your eyes.

  4. I said it before and will say it again, NH will never trade Cole, McCutchen or even Harrison he just can not or will not make a blockbuster trade.

    Yankees have no urgency either at this time with the CC resigning….

      • The difference being there was no directional decision to make.

        Huntington wasn’t hired to build on Littlefield’s club.

        • – Jason Bay was a blockbuster deal and NH did make the deal. Nate McClouth could be considered a “blockbuster” as well.
          – There was a directional decision to be made. The Pirates had the most productive OF in baseball and no pitching at the time. NH could’ve attempted to augment the pitching and retain Bay and Nady. That was the debate during the off season and I remember it well. Huntington could and did consider (at least publicly) building on Littlebrain’s club. Of course, he made the “directional decsion” not to.

  5. Not entirely worried about this other teams have 55 grade players almost every other team in MLB the pirates are flush with 45 grade pitchers Hayes grades with andujar. Not the end of the world Houston can part with two 50 grade prospects and not dip into their top 5.

    • I’d love to flip Rivero to Houston for a package of players. They are loaded with Kyle Tucker, Colin Moran/JD Davis, Garrett Stubs and a pitching lottery ticket.

      • But I’m saying you could get some of those guys pretty easily with Cole and it would be a better package than nyys. Rivero should fetch a Gleyb or the Astros top pitcher prospect..

          • Why would Rivero get more than Cole? I realize that he has more years of control, but how many closers stay in that role for the long haul? Yankees robbed the Cubs when they traded Chapman and then robbed the Indians to trade Miller. Cole is the piece here that should fetch the most prospects.

            • You do make an interesting point…

              Using the Andrew Miller trade as an example of what Rivero should get is particularly funny to me, since of course Andrew Miller returned Clint Frazier and Justus Shefield whom the Pirates Prospects commenting minds have deemed a slap in the face as a return for Gerrit Cole.

  6. NH is waiting BC out, but the Yankees will never, never include Gleber Torres in the trade. If the Pirates can’t live with that thought, move on. Cashman purportedly offered Clint Frazer and Chance Adams in the deal. I’d make that one, only if the Yankees included Miguel Andjur. Let’s face it. The only way for the Pirates to get out of ‘no man’s land'” is to trade off Cole, Cutch and JHay. Start the rebuilding process NOW!

  7. Its dead, they are too scared to do anything. Eventually, Cutch and Cole will end up leaving in free agency with nothing to show for either player. The old saying, either sh*t or get off the pot comes to mind, but I fear their legs will just fall asleep while sitting on said pot.

    • Sure, sure. And if they did trade Cole, or Cutch last year, yinzers would just twist it into another “typical Pittsburgh” rhetoric as well. Either “typical Pittsburgh, selling off their star players” or somehow developing what they feel is an expert opinion on how the Pirates got shafted in the trade, didn’t get enough value, and management is a joke.

      It’s a lose-lose for Pirates from a PR perspective.

        • The simple fact in this dance is that the Yankees have signed CC and Stanton while the Pirates have made no improvements this off-season. Just damn difficult to look confident in taking a hard line. One of these teams has to make a deal and the other is able to sit back and wait. Let’s hope somebody’s ego does not get in the way of a deal.

          • We don’t have to trade Cole now. He had an off year last year, value is down. If he has a good 2018 with the Bucs he might be worth as much a year from now to the Yankees as he is today
            CC is getting old.

            • No doubt the Pirates can keep Cole, Harrison, and any other short-term player on the roster, but that just delays the inevitable – we have to make moves – I think now would be better than later. Cole/Harrison for Clint Frazier, Miguel Andujar, and Justus Sheffield serves both teams. Yes, they will get the benefit immediately, but the Pirates get the benefit of years of control, start a mini-rebuild, and still have the chance to win in 2018.

              • Yeah, and then in another three to five years, when it comes time to start considering who to sign–Taillon, Frazier, Anujar, Sheffield, Keller, Bell, etc., etc., etc.–to long-term deals, after perhaps we are teased with another wild card berth and an early October exit, then we will be right back in the same pot of crap with this ownership group. THEY DON’T WANT TO PONY UP THE AMOUNT OF MONEY IT’S GOING TO TAKE TO PUT A LEGITIMATE, CONSISTENT, WINNING TEAM ON THE FIELD.
                All this talk about rebuild and years of control, is a joke to me with the Nutting regime. I was willing to be on board with them back in 2010 and 2011 when the tide began to turn. Then in 2013-15, I really thought that this ownership group was committed to winning, i.e., supplementing the home grown talent with trades and free agent signings of established veterans when and where necessary. NO MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This ownership has not show me any indication of a solid commitment to winning. They claim that they want to win, and toss the $100 million dollar payroll figure around and expect the fan base to do cart wheels over it.
                I AM FED UP WITH BEING FLEECED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please, Mr. Nutting, run the franchise like a professional sports team should be run, OR SELL THE TEAM TO SOMEONE WHO WILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            • I hear they are looking for a new character in star wars episode 9 to play Jabba the Hut’s cousin, Cabatha the hut….i think he’s up for it.

            • Value drops if he only has one year of control left. Its trade him now or at the deadline. No one truly knows what the Yankees are offering. But if its something like Frazier, Andujar and Sheffield.

        • Because they are human. PR should not matter but it probably does especially with a franchise icon like Cutch. If they traded Cutch to the Dogers for pitching prospect Walker Buehler, the considerable public backlash would be a factor whether NH admits it or not.

            • Not really related to my “PR” point but…
              Eric Longenhagen of fangraphs indicates the Pirates should look for a 50 FV player in return for Cutch.
              In March of 2017, fangraphs graded Buehler at 50 FV. Buehler’s stock may well have gone up over the past year but I cannot find any more recent FV for him.

          • I’m not blaming you for all the sins as I see them on Pirates interwebz, but this is the kind of thing that just makes me shake my head.

            We spent eight damn years chest pumping about how Huntington does the right thing regardless of public pressure, about how he sticks to his plans and doesn’t bow down.

            As with so many other things over the last two years, now we’re all the sudden cool with sticking our tails between our legs and admitting all of that was bullshit?

          • Baseball Prospectus wrote him up as a 60 OFP pre-season and both BP and FG had him in their mid-season Top 50s, which generally correlate with 60 FV and above.

          • Walker Buehler for McCutchen ? Ha hah….If NH could pull that off, he might not be mayor, but arrested for robbery

        • Furthermore, there is precedent for this very thing. NH had worked out a deal to trade Jason Bay to the Indians for Cliff Lee, Franklin Guiterezz and Kelly Shopach. The trade was nixed by Coonelly for fear of the public backlash. In particular, he felt the acquisition of Lee was too similar to Matt Morris.

          • At that point there were legitimate questions about Cliff Lee. He only became a stud after that point, I think beyond anyone’s expectations.

          • I wonder how many trades Coonelly nixes that we never know about. NH takes all the blame but I wonder how many times its happened, probably a lot.

            • I’m not even sure we should believe the rumor above. Every account I’ve ever read of their organizational structure has been that Coonely strictly handles the business – operations – side while Huntington has full control of personnel.

      • I actually agree with you, it is a lose lose situation in the PR world. My point is, either get some more pieces to help build the team or trade the pieces we have to rebuild, I’m scared they will do neither and another season is doomed before it starts. The team, as currently constructed won’t make the playoffs, I think the core is there such that if they can add, then can make the playoffs…but if they don’t add, then they should sell.

        • And I agree with that. I’d like to see them go one way or the other. I just think people are quick to place all the blame on Pirates management for not caring or not trying. Whose to say the Yankees aren’t trying to push over the Pirates with a far underwhelming trade? Last year it was reported Robles as the centerpiece for Cutch, and anything less at that point becomes NH failing or not trying. And didn’t it come out that Pirates were actually looking for Giolito as the centerpiece? NH could very well be pushing for Frazier, but the pompous Yankees could only be offering their 20th top prospect.

          As with Tim’s article the other day, and the detailing of the Yanks getting Torres for 3 months of Chapman. If they’re getting a far underwhelming trade offer, why not wait a little for a player of Cole’s caliber? Trade Freese for a bucket of bubble gum if you need to, but Cole could have a bounce back season (relative to last season). They could then get an over-the-top package, for a year and 3 months service, from a team vying for that final rotation piece in a playoff run. Cole’s HR rate tripled last year. If he could even just cut that in half, I think he’s back to being seen as an uncontested #1, and he could bring in the massive package people want.

          I personally feel it’s time to punt the season, given the Cards and Cubs additions. To which, I think they need to wash the team of the Freese’s, but potentially still hold valuable chips like Cole till they can get max value.

      • The real issue is they have 1.5 legit players to trade here – Cole being .75 and Cutch being .75. No one wants Cutch, however some MAY want Cole. Cole might be the best arm on the market. Yes, his 2017 was dismal. Something tells me that other GM’s think Cole is pretty good. I don’t blame NH for wanting too much for Cole. I just hope they don’t get screwed the way they
        did with Walker 18

        • Yeah, I think we’re at the point of teams trying to fill needs, but they’re not at a point of desperation yet. I’d even put them at 2.0 legit players to trade; Cole – 1, Cutch – .75, and J-Hay .25. I think the biggest factor, and biggest between these 3, is perception. I think Cole still has the perception as a front end starter, with some recent struggles. Cutch is perceived as a superstar that’s began a rapid decline. J-Hay is perceived as lightning in a bottle, but a great clubhouse guy. The first few months of the season should be really telling of where it’s going to go, and if these players can replicate their stronger seasons, without signs of more bumps.

        • I definitely was not a fan of the Walker trade. I thought they should have at least gotten some extra in addition to Niese. And maybe that’s playing a factor now? NH not wanting to sell just to sell someone.

    • The Pirates are in a bit of a pickle. As Tim’s previous analysis shows, this team appears to be a mid to high 80-win team as is. A couple things break their way (Polanco, Bell, Cervelli, Taillon, etc) and they could conceivably be in the low 90s.

      I think they are looking at trade offers for Cole and Cutch as giving up on 2018 – which is something that they don’t want to do. This trade, to me, was always a long shot – blow me away or I’m walking away…

      By the way, I believe that trading Harrison is also giving up on 2018. A Cervelli trade would not as long as that back filled his spot.

      • If he doesn’t go before April, he will go in July…I do not see this team as constructed being better than a 3rd place in the Central…ie No Man’s Land.

        • I wouldn’t disagree with 3rd place as it is clear that the Cards and Cubs should be better. But 3rd isn’t no man’s land as it could mean a wild card spot.

      • “As Tim’s previous analysis shows, this team appears to be a mid to high 80-win team as is.”

        That’s *not* what Tim’s analysis showed. Tim does his win projection based on what the team *could* win if everything went according to plan.

        Actual win projections have this club around .500, which makes 90 wins extremely difficult without legitimate improvements.

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