P2Daily: Daniel Vogelbach Trade Creates Roster Flexibility

This will very likely be a very action packed couple of weeks for the Pittsburgh Pirates. With the draft over and done with, the attention turns to getting all of their picks signed and sent to the complex to get their professional careers underway.

On top of that, the trade deadline is quickly approaching, with the Pirates set to likely be sellers once again. They kicked off trade season by trading Daniel Vogelbach to the New York Mets for reliever Colin Holderman.

The righty is an intriguing prospect (still holds that status despite being 26), as he was ranked in tenth in the Mets system according to FanGraphs. Holderman has done well for the Mets this year, going 4-0 with a 2.04 ERA and 18 strikeouts in 17 2/3 innings.

It’s something else that makes this a great trade for the Pirates, despite losing one of their better hitters on the roster. Not only did they strengthen their bullpen, with a player with six years of control left after this year, but they also created some added flexibility with their roster the rest of the way out.

Vogelbach was great against righties (149 wRC+), but was struggled against left-handed pitching (33 wRC+), and wasn’t really playable in the field.

That’s a lot of variables working against him to be a consistent proponent in the lineup.

Now with his roster spot opened up, it makes the Pirates a little more versatile in what they can do with their lineup. They can give a player an extra day off in the field, but really it creates an extra lineup spot to a younger player for them to evaluate what part they may play as a part of the future team.

It also clears a lefty off the roster, something the Pirates have plenty of in Pittsburgh, and in waiting in Indianapolis.

It always feels like a never-ending cycle for the Pirates — signing players just to offload them at the deadline. The Pirates are in a position now to make more of trades like this.

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I would think that this trade creates more food for the other players on the post game meal table.


An excellent article Anthony, and you definitely exhibit the gift of Understatement with the statement that “Pirates set to likely be sellers once again”. If they are not sellers we have a SCOOP!

No Bednar, Reynolds, or Hayes. We are too close to respectability to jerk the rug out from under the faithful – some of us still remember wandering for 20 years trying to find enough quality players to play .500 baseball!


Happy for Vogie, happier for us. Holderman is a much needed bullpen arm.

The sooner the Pirates jettison the flotsam on this roster and bring up Bae, Captain Bligh, Jack, and TSwag the better. Have to find out which of these prospects will rise up and take their place as key members of next year’s team.


Can agree with Bae, but I would prefer having 3 MI’s up in Oneil Cruz, Ji-Hwan Bae, and Rodolfo Castro. All others need to leave the MI one way or the other. Right now I would put Bae at 2B and use Castro as a 1B/Ut player. Both probably have some tradeability also.

Forget that Swagg’s is a former 1st Rounder and has had some tough luck – is he the best OF or in the top 3 at AAA, or does he need more games at AAA? He was up to MLB and was seriously overmatched. In his last 6 games at AAA he is 1 for 24. I think he can be better served getting at least another 20 or 30 games at AAA and hope that he can find himself at the plate.


Yeah, you’re probably right on all counts, especially with regard to TSwag. He’s done nothing to warrant promotion since being sent down.

Bae needs to be up yesterday IMO! Start him at 2B and bat him lead off.


It’s a good baseball trade as Vogelbach can help a contender that has enough depth to rarely need to bat him against lefties while Holderman addresses a glaring weakness for us.

It also qualifies as a trade where we’re a buyer and a seller, and while each trade in the next two weeks and offseason doesn’t have to be both, overall we need to be buying as well as selling.

And as many of us have pointed out, ABs going to guys like Vogelbach should be going to one of our many lefties in Indy. I liked Vogelbach and I like Gamel, but Gamel should also be moved to free up ABs.


Pirates fans deserve what they accept and support. I will not spend a dime on this organization until they decide to be ethical and respect their fans and players and actually try to compete and win. I am also not going to make excuses for them, dismiss their incompetence, or pretend they are changing and making progress…they are not. I feel sorry for the young players in the organization who are continually passed over and blocked by low value veteran retreads. Worst organization in all professional sports by far. If enough fans rise up and demand change, stop supporting the charade, maybe meaningful change will occur……


I share your frustration because I frequently feel the same way, but I grew up a Pirate fan and despite trying very hard multiple times to stop caring and move elsewhere, it simply doesn’t work for me. I’ve lived in different parts of the country (San Francisco and San Diego mostly) and while there adopted the Giants and Padres who were doing well at the time. I enjoyed the games and became a fan but only temporarily. When the Pirates came to town despite wearing their colors and sitting in their sections outwardly cheering them on, down deep I always found myself wanting the Pirates to win.

The Pirates were and will always be my team regardless of how they perform on the field no matter how much I pretend otherwise. I can’t help it. That’s the main reason I get so angry at Pirate ownership. They clearly do not care about the Pirates as a baseball team but only as an investment and a way to get themselves attention. Nutting’s smirking smile makes me nauseous.

Nutting cares about himself and his own image. He doesn’t like to look bad but narcissists seldom believe they do even if nearly everyone else can see it. Personally I believe that he could be manipulated by appealing to that narcissism rather than attacking it.

He loves positive attention so praise him when the team does something good even if he doesn’t deserve it and just ignore him otherwise. You’d have to rely on the GM or someone else in the organization to reign him in though. I still believe he ordered NH to make that Archer trade because he thought it would make him look good to a fan base that was being critical of some of the other trades the Pirates had made. It had the opposite effect of course because he obviously knows nothing about baseball.

Unfortunately the local media, especially the Pirate media that’s either owned or employed by the Pirates, praises the team and bows down to ownership regardless of how ridiculously bad they are. How are you going to change that? They’re paid to do it and would quickly be unemployed if they stopped. Some people on this sight and others like it are critical quite often, but I guarantee you Nutting isn’t a member and no one in his inner circle who might be would ever tell him about any criticism to his face.

What would rising up and demanding change look like? If I thought for one moment that boycotting games or not watching on TV would lead to an improved team, I would lock myself away for the summer, but both of us know that wouldn’t change anything no matter how many of us did it. Take out full page ads in a local newspaper? Who reads newspapers anymore? Hire an airplane to pull a banner over PNC? The local media that’s not beholding to the Pirates could help, but even they want access to the team and would be hesitant.

Neither you nor any other Pirate fan should stop criticizing them. I do it all the time, just ask my wife, but I still look forward to the games and feel better when they manage to win. Don’t ask me why.


I don’t think it’s that complicated with Nutting. He has to be aware of his public perception. I think its just about money, and the Pirates are a money making business. Winning is fine, but not the primary goal.


I still can’t believe Ben got something seemingly useful for a one trick pony of a player.


Thats one trick more than Yoshi.


Who is excited about yet another veteran cast-off like Allen, taking at bats from prospects who need to be playing instead? If Julio Rodriquez was in the Pirates organization he would still be in high A ball…


The fact that this article states that Vogelbach was one of the Pirates better hitters, speaks volumes about the state of this team.


Cheer up fella! Why so glum? You’re killing my buzz on a trade day. Would you prefer the article didn’t state Vogelbach was one of the better hitters on the team? And you take issue with Allen getting a shot now that he is healthy… Who is he blocking? Suwinski went down because his swing fell apart, Madras needed a tuneup, Mitchell wasn’t ready… The list seems endless. Young players take time and most of them now don’t make it. That is why you give a shot Allen, who has displayed good defense, speed and hit against major league pitching. The only reason we have him is because he couldn’t beat out Aaron Judge. Settle down.

Last edited 2 months ago by Born4rf

The Pirates needed another bullpen arm to overuse and abuse, so a good trade for the Pirates…

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