Pirates Discussion: From MLB Draft to the Trade Deadline

There weren’t any MLB or affiliate games on Wednesday, and there also weren’t any draft signings.

Thursday will have a few MLB teams beginning their post All-Star break schedule, but the Pittsburgh Pirates don’t start back up again till Friday.

Not much else going on, other than mostly simmering feelings about the draft. There are a few rumors swirling around Daniel Vogelbach, mostly surrounding the New York Mets inquiring on the first baseman.

With regards to trades, the one aspect I miss is the ability to trade International slot money. The International market is actually a bit of a hot topic this week. The MLB and MLBPA have a deadline of July 25th to come to an agreement on a draft, or it returns to the status quo. MLB’s proposal would institute an International draft in 2024, whereas the MLBPA proposal would begin the draft in 2023.

This would’ve been a great year to still have the ability to trade slot money, as majority of the Pirates presumed “assets” don’t appear to likely draw much of a return.

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AdministrativeSky236

Slot money or draft picks might be the best we could do in trades for a lot of these guys, but to me those would be quality returns. Also, I really thought we played again today and its hitting hard that we dont

capirate

Apart from Quintana (maybe) none of these guys – Newman, Gamel, Yoshi, Van Meter, Vogelbach, Stratton – are going to bring back any significant player. I agree with Wilbur that some of these guys are untradeable. For those who can be traded, I would prefer they try to get a lottery ticket for every one of them. Maybe they will get lucky with one trade. The Pirates don’t need to add any mediocre minor leaguers for additional depth.

justin

I think we could get something back for Quintana, Vogelbach and Newman plus maybe Stratton and Gamel. I would DFA (as I doubt anyone wants them) VanMeter & Marisnick.

Get Bae and Swaggerty up for the rest of the year to see what they got. Hopefully they can hit the ground running in ’23.

hoffmark83

Maybe we get back a reserve windy day bullpen catcher

leefieux

‘Something’ could be anything from a bag of used jock straps to a backup catcher in A ball. 🙂 🙂

justin

better than nothing! clear the way for the kids, that’d at least be interesting

AdministrativeSky236

Wonder why this is? Unless the bottom of their system is so horrid that these guys have a better shot

hoffmark83

And the last I saw the Pirates had 0

joesolo6181

I doubt an international draft will help baseball. Look what happened in PR when those players became eligible to be drafted. the talent dried up there and will dry up in DR and other locations./

john_fluharty

I don’t understand how a draft would impact talent. Are they going to give up on baseball and switch to soccer or something?

TNBucs

Hopefully they’ll be factoring in the opportunity cost of not opening up spots for Swaggerty, Mitchell, Suwinski, Bae, Castro, and possibly a couple of others to get a better sense of what we have going into the offseason. For this reason I hope they find landing spots for VanMeter, Gamel, Newman or Chavis (I’d keep one to play against lefties), Marisnick, and Vogelbach even if they bring back very little in return (I think Gamel, Newman, and Vogelbach should at least bring back a lottery ticket).

I’d consider keeping Quintana though as he’s not blocking anyone who deserves an opportunity. But I’d limit his innings while trying to extend him for next year. He’s already above his combined innings from the last two years so I expect little from him for the remainder of this year but if a team can manage him for his health, I think he could return to being a solid pitcher next year.

emjayinTN

Agree with Para 1, but would add firing Shelton; not bad to consider keeping Q, but he’s a FA at the end of 2022 – do we pay him what this year will be worth? Presently 1.8 fWAR which would be worth $12+ mil?

Shelton. Probably deserved to have better players, but, if kept, he would be a lame duck Manager in 2023 with a terrible W-L record. Trade or DFA all of the deadwood by Aug 2 and fire Shelton. Start over with a new team and Bench Coach Don Kelly as the Interim Manager – that’s how this team needs to get ready for 2023! The season ends Oct 4 and by Oct 15, Kelly is named Manager with a 4 year contract, and he and BC finalize the decision as to which coaches stay – give Kelly the ability to pick his own support system!

b mcferren

we should be buyers to capture a few pieces with years of control

rule V is going to wreck us in December

we should act now and convert the prospect hype into a players that can actually contribute next year

justin

I’ve seen this a few times over the past few weeks, can anyone provide a list of prospects that need to be protected this winter? I know they cancelled the Rule V Draft last year, but I was thinking a lot of that worry was overblown then as well.

justin

Thank you! Outside of the obvious additions (Bolton, Bae, Burrows) I don’t really see anyone we’d likely lose to the draft. Maybe Fraizer, Triolo or a stashable pitcher? If they aren’t going to make the Pirates sub-par 40-man, how would they stick on another team’s 26-man for the entire year?

TNBucs

I wondered about Ashcraft too, only because teams are more likely to pick someone they can hide in a pen like we did with Oviedo (a lot of good that did for us, though).

TNBucs

Yes, and especially for bullpen help. Though acquiring a Garrett Jones-type who might be blocked would also be a good use of resources. As you say, we’re looking at a bit of a Rule 5 crunch and should use some of that depth to be buyers. I’ll be pretty disappointed if we’re only sellers.

TNBucs

I always overestimate how many need to be protected (though we’ll never know if I was off last year), but the following at least need to be considered and I think there is quality there: Bolton and Thomas (from this past year), and newly eligible players Alvarez, Bae, Burrows, Flowers, Fraizer, Gorski, Jimenez, Nolasco, Rodriguez, Scott, Triolo. Granted, several of these only profile to be utility players or relievers (though this year emphasizes the value of relievers) and I know not all of these would be protected, but I also may have left off a player or two.

Last edited 2 months ago by TNBucs
TNBucs

Sabol I debated about, partly because catching is always in demand. I can’t believe I left Lopez off as I’ve been excited about him since seeing him play a few weeks ago. But wouldn’t someone like Jimenez be so easy to hide in a bullpen that he’d be at high risk of getting selected?

b mcferren

first base, left handed reliever and starting pitcher

Wilbur Miller

We need a more radical approach:

Major league players

bscat

Weird scheduling: Bucs played a doubleheader in a one-day trip to Cincinnati (on a scheduled travel day), creating that difficult stretch of games heading into the break. Notice that both Bucs & Reds are off today.

hoffmark83

I’m with you Jeff. Wish we could deal for International slot money. Other than Reynolds or Hayes none of the others are going to bring the Pirates anything of value in a trade. I know a lot of people fantasize, “If we give them 2 or 3 of our scrubs we will get 1 or 2 top prospects back!” We all know that’s not how it works. Also, hard no on international draft please!

john_fluharty

I wonder if you could effectively do it by having the other team sign the guy you want then trade someone plus cash for that player.

JimEastTennessee

The “little trades” for international money CAN be big…

Wilbur Miller

I’m really bemused by the idea that GMBS was going to clear out all this veteran driftwood at the deadline. Some of these guys you couldn’t get anybody to take for free. Apart from Q, the only return I’m looking for is the absence of all these losers. And I doubt we’ll even get that.

Plus, if it really WAS the plan to put this clown show on the field for four months and hope some other GM has a clown fetish, what does that say about this FO’s attitude toward the fans?

redwards60

I fully expect Gamel and Quintana to be moved at the deadline, although I would not expect a whole in return for either one of them. The Pirates should pursue high ceiling, but raw and young prospects in return – kind of like the Watson for Cruz trade a few years ago. There is likely going to be more demand for players like Newman, Crowe, Chavis, and Brubaker (and of course Reynolds and Bednar, but I would be shocked if either were traded), so it would not surprise me if some or all of them to be dealt.

If the Pirates can convince any team to take the likes of VanMeter, Marisnick, Vogelbach, Yoshi, Peters, Stratton – that would be addition by subtraction in my opinion, even if there is little if any return. They are just low value and low performance roadblocks to younger players.

roberto

Which prospects do you see as being blocked? Perhaps Swags, but he’s just learning to play LF. VanMeter ain’t blocking Bae. Newman is.

leefieux

The only guy we got that could potentially bring back even a speculative lotto tix is Quintana. Heck, even Tyler Anderson only got us Tejada and Bins. So what can we expect for Q? Something similar?

Bednar, a luxury on this team, could, tho, fetch someone good, imo. Reynolds won’t be dealt, esp while injured. I can’t think of anybody else on this wretched team worth trading for, can you?

leefieux

Sure….send us two ‘unexciting’ prospects for Q. I’d rather keep him so we’re at least occasionally competitive.

joebaseball

Nope. Package two to get back one top prospect.

john_fluharty

But does anyone actually do that?

Colin

Realistically, what could Vogey bring us back in a trade?

john_fluharty

I wouldn’t mind keeping him especially if you could convince him to work on losing about 40 pounds.

johnalcorn

Given that he wouldnt really get you anything, why not hold on to him. He has been a decent MLB bat for the last 4 years, current production matches exactly with projection algorithms, and has 2 more years of team control at age 29, and costs almost nothing. Seems more useful on the team than off.

leefieux

Not much.

Colin

That’s kinda what I thought. Hoping for something of interest if it does happen though

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