Pirates Discussion: Misplays and Mishaps

The Pittsburgh Pirates took it to extra innings in what could be Jose Quintana’s final start.

They had a two run lead but the bullpen wasn’t able to hold the Philadelphia Phillies scoreless.

There really isn’t much more to say other than the Pirates got a strong starting effort, the offense put up a couple runs, but it wasn’t enough.


Josh Lowe. Jarren Duran. Bligh Madris.

Three outfielders that have recently had a misplay turn into a big scoring hit for their opponent.

Josh Lowe took a Trey Mancini flyball to the face that turned into a two-run inside-the-park homerun.

Jarren Duran lost a Raimel Tapia flyball in the lights that landed about 40 feet behind him and turned into an inside-the-park grand slam.

Bligh Madris misplayed a Darick Hall flyball that went down as a two-run triple.

To me, I feel bad for the pitcher on the mound who did his  job only to get tagged with earned runs.


If you look at the trend of errors per game over the history of baseball, you notice that errors continue to gradually decrease over time. Each decade is mostly bunched together.

Not to say old timers didn’t practice or practice hard, but I think it’d be fair to say that teams have developed better techniques and drills at this point. Previous players passing down their knowledge. Do you believe it could be because athletes have become bigger, faster, and stronger? More athletic?

Back to the three outfielders I mentioned above, I think a lot probably just has to do with official scorers just not freely handing out errors. You could probably make the argument that dealing with a ball in the lights shouldn’t be held against the outfielder.

But there are also some heinous non-error calls that you will see in the minors. I don’t have exact dates of games, but I can assure you last year that Mason Martin got at least three or four friendly “doubles”. Balls that landed not even ten feet from the infield dirt behind second base.

Though in a time when there is often complaints about the lack of batting average in today’s game, it probably wouldn’t behoove the game of baseball to begin handing out errors to outfielders more frequently on routine flyballs gone rogue.

Phillies @ Pirates

Time: 7:15 PM EST

Pirates Starter: Mitch Keller (3-7, 4.55)

Phillies Starter: Ranger Suarez (7-5, 3.84)

Keller Notes: Mitch Keller is easily in the midst of his best month of the season, and may even be the best month of his career to date. Through four starts, he’s given up only eight earned runs through 25.0 IP which is good for a 2.88 ERA. He’s managed to complete at least six innings in all four July starts, while striking out 25 batters to only 3 walks. Sinker Mitch has been very effective.




1. Kyle Schwarber (L) LF
2. Rhys Hoskins (R) 1B
3. Alec Bohm (R) 3B
4. J.T. Realmuto (R) C
5. Nick Castellanos (R) RF
6. Darick Hall (L) DH
7. Bryson Stott (L) 2B
8. Didi Gregorius (L) SS
9. Matt Vierling (R) CF

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Well, for me, this was as successful as a game (sadly at this stage in 2022) can be… Keller continuing his improvement to be a counted on MLB starter…. All i got to share….


“Misplays and Mishaps” should probably be etched on the Pirates gravestone because they will soon be dead or dead last I mean, lol.


One positive tonight was Mitchell’s homerun saving Keller from an undeserved loss.


I hope the rest of the team paid attention to Cal’s game ending at bat. He may have made the last out but it was a very professional at bat. I think it was nine pitches but he fought off some very tough pitches.


Why did Hayes lie on his back after not stopping that throw from Chavez….forcing the shortstop to run all the way over to retrieve the ball by the stands. He looks lost at the plate and quitting on that play doesn’t help.


I hope it was because he got spiked. Otherwise that was a bad look, a very bad look to just sit there.


Thought maybe Knebel balked, but no, very unusual move after he started his delivery.
Geesh, snake bit.


Very frustrating loss.


Billion fking dollar talent and a scheiss 10 cent head


And here I thought Cruz at 2b was an automatic run…


Big fan of yerry


This team can find more ways to lose. It’s really kind of amazing. At least Chavis was trying but man-o-man.


How about the ghost runner getting picked off. Something new every loss.


De los Santos is not a strike out pitcher, he is a ground ball pitcher, I think that having a strike out pitcher pitching the top of the ten at home is the way to go, am I wrong?


Ohhhhh. Ffffuuuuuddddggggeeee……..in my best Ralphie voice.


The book is out on Cruz. He’s going to be pitched over and over and over again just like Knebel did. Soft curve ball in the dirt, another curve ball, and a chase FB. Textbook. Easy out at this point of his career.


We’ll see if and how he adjusts.

Last edited 2 months ago by robertkasperski

One time, Oneil! One time!!!


Not this time ………


Happy Crowe Day Y’all!!!

![]comment image)_


Smooth by newman


Hellava barehanded catch by the fan in the stands!




He just looks like a ballplayer to me, im not sure what it is


His swing seemed so effortless on both homeruns this series!

b mcferren

WDVE Rocks!


K’ed 4 out if 5 batters! I’m thinking of going to Altoona game tomorrow. May be rain though. It would be a good break from the Pirates!


Ben Gamel batting cleanup tells me everything I don’t want to know about our roster and lineup-and I know he actually hits well


Why go on contact there? I hate mindless plays like that. A big one hopper to the their baseman and you go? Why?

b mcferren

leaning towards wanting to keep Newman


Me too, if only as a hedge against having to roster another VanMeter in 2023. Ideally Cruz sticks at SS and Bae takes to the major leagues well enough to be a more-or-less regular 2B, but there’s way too much uncertainty with both of them. Newman would be a good insurance policy, and he’ll still be cheap.


and a right-handed bat to complement the youngsters at SS and 2B


Three straight flat FB’s to Realmuto. I mean, ok, but you better locate it better.


I was calling for his curve there just to change eye sight and speed, then he lays one up, but he recovered.


Castillo’s got to take a strike there with a 1-0 count. That’s on the 3rd base coach (ie. Shelton)


Haines keeping his job next year will be the final straw that proves there’s no accountability in this org. There are little league teams with a better plate approach


I haven’t had an opinion on Haines, but I’m getting tired of watching at bats like the one Madris just had, k in four pitches not one swing, last one fb down the middle…..


So two innings, two hits two walks for a whip of 2! Hard contact is a little worrisome, hope to see better the next innings. He’s the only player worth watching on a Saturday night, no one with a bat worth watching….😔

Last edited 2 months ago by PirateRican21

Keller dancing with fire. Two more hits, gotta keep that whip at 2! TOOTBLAN was big.


Has been lucky not good today. Not bad, but not good either.


I’ll take that back, there’s something to be said about having the fortitude to keep getting out of jams, something that he wasn’t very good in the past, so I’m gonna put on my rose colored glasses and lean to a good outing, so far!

Last edited 2 months ago by PirateRican21

Is the dugout calling the pitch selection? Just watched Delay take a long look there before punching in the pitch selection!


Ok Keller I see you, didn’t quite had it at first and then you showed what has many excited around here, I’m still on the fence, but hey, I want to believe. Btw, his four seamer has been better the last two games, sinker a little off command wise!


It was really nice to see him shut the ending down like that after a rough start.


Misplays and mishaps, sounds like the 7th inning in Bradenton Thursday night. 4 errors (I don’t care what the official scorer says) and 2 walks with the bases loaded. 1 ball left the infield and they somehow gave up 7 runs.


Angel Perdomo…I’d take a flyer on him; hasn’t shown any control, but you can’t teach release angle.


I have never understood the reasoning behind the assigning of outfield errors. We basically use the same reasoning as we do on infield grounders: if the guys gets to the ball and touches it but doesn’t field it cleanly and he “should” have made the play he is given an error. Makes sense in the infield in almost all cases, but not so much on fly balls. If a fly ball is hit to where I was standing but I run 60 feet away from where it dropped, the hitter is awarded a double or a triple, despite everyone in the park knowing that I should have made the play. Why does my “not touching the ball” enter the equation? It would seem that the circumstances for errors in the outfield are unique to the position and overlap the infield in certain ways. I would love to see official scorers be given the discretion-maybe they already have it, but don’t want to go against custom?-to charge outfielders for misjudging balls even when they do not touch it.


“Bligh Madris misplayed a Darick Hall flyball that went down as a two-run triple.”

To be fair, while Madris was able to put himself in position to make a play on the ball, that doesn’t change the fact that he was trying to track down a drive that was going to hit halfway up the wall 385 feet from the plate. That one’s on Thompson, who was in the process of giving up four straight hits.

b mcferren

seems like every game they are showing a video of Bednar doing some sort of community visit

no doubt, this guy is here for the long term for sure – – – zero zero chance he gets traded

expect a long term extension soon

would also like to see a way to trade for his brother

b mcferren

Blake Snell and Andrew Vaughn are the two bigs catches I am hoping for in the next few days


Who do you propose we trade to obtain those guys?

b mcferren

Brubaker for Vaughn and Cal Mitchell for Snell


Perhaps the general decrease in errors can be attributed to today’s athletes being better than in the past or maybe they work harder or are more focused on a single sport like baseball rather than on multiple sports like used to be the case, but let us not forget the differences in the equipment that’s used now versus in the past.

Look at a fielder’s glove from the 1950’s, ‘60s and before that then compare it to one’s used now. Some of the older ones weren’t much more than the so-called oven mitts used as protection on the bases in today’s game and often both hands were needed to make a catch. Todays outfield gloves in particular are often huge and snap closed if the ball hits anywhere inside. The sport equipment industry has spent a lot of effort, and made a lot of money, developing and marketing newer and better gloves, shoes, sport sunglasses, etc. and that has to account for some of the differences in the game.


The field might be better, defensive alignments?


Good points.


Believe me, by the late 60’s the gloves you recognize today were in use. Both Rawlings and Wilson have only minimally changed their pro models in the last 50+ years. There’s been a proliferation of glove manufacturers but check out a 50 year old Wilson A2000 and today’s model. Not a lot of difference.


Sorry I do not want to argue but no I will not simply believe you. I would rather believe my own eyes. It depends on how far back you wish to go. You set it in the late 1960s and things started improving then but baseball was played a long time before that and the article said over the decades so I assumed it meant before that as well. I suspect nearly everyone (or maybe not) would agree that the stuff used before 1950 and especially before 1930 was pretty rudimentary compared to today but even more recently things have changed.

The Wilson 2000 wasn’t available until the late 1950s and the design evolved over the years. Again I do not wish to argue about it but baseball equipment has changed dramatically over the decades and it’s pretty well documented so you don’t have to just believe me.


I’ve long thought that these types of ‘hits’ should be a scorer’s judgment, just like infield singles/errors.


I don’t know what the Pirates see in Underwood, Peters, and Stratton…all weak links in the bullpen. Glad to see guys like Allen, VanMeter, Heineman, Yoshi, and Marisnick on the roster …doesn’t make any sense. Why is Contreras still in Indy and guys like Wilson and Thompson get starts?


Why is this guy still a prospect? Gonna make it my mission to upvote every post and have graduate just like Oneil today!


With the emphasis on power and outhitting your opponent, I wonder if there’s less emphasis on defense. We’re all guilty of this—we draft a kid whose profile is contact and defense and we’re disappointed. But draft a guy with big power potential and we’re excited regardless of the defensive profile.

OTOH, there are so many better defensive metrics now that a guy can have defensive value even if he occasionally botches a routine play.


The Reds got quite a haul for Castillo. Lordy.


Totally agree- Add in a strong probable return for Mahle, and this is one of those trade deadlines that can put them on the fast track for contention again soon. You also have to assume the Cubs will get very strong returns for Contreras/Happ and it seems the Pirates will take a step back after this trade deadline.


Yeah, that was my take, also. Time for development, development, deveopment, 2022 looks like much of a lost season…AFL is going to be VERY important.

b mcferren

this was probably their idea of a return for Reynolds


I was about to post something similar. On a positive note, this should up the price on Quintana though it could also get teams deciding to be sellers who had been on the fence.


I tend to think our esteemed colleague below is correct in that this may be an isolated incident with Seattle. What may happen though, is teams who miss out on starters on the market may turn their attention to bullpen help. Pittsburgh can help in that area.


I see this as a one off trade. Seattle is desperate to end their playoff drought, thus causing them to give up more than another contender would for Castillo.


Baseball America ran a great article last week basically arguing that clubs rarely regret what they give up in blockbuster trades. Makes ya think!

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