Pirates Discussion: Tuesday Matinee against the Cubs

After the Pittsburgh Pirates went on their first four game winning streak in almost three years, they’ve since lost seven of the following nine games. With four of those seven losses coming by way of only by one run.

As has been the typical storyline as of late, they were lead by a solid starting pitching effort, only for the offense to struggle and not provide any run support. JT Brubaker continued his recent run of success by keeping the Chicago Cubs at bay with only two runs through six innings. The Cubs were then able to score the winning run on a double by Nico Hoerner in the bottom of the 8th.

Bryan Reynolds returned much quicker to the lineup than I expected. As generally when I hear it’s an oblique injury, I don’t expect to see that player for quite some time. He didn’t have any rehab appearances, so I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets the day off even with a scheduled off-day on Wednesday.

If there’s a bright spot to be noted, it has seemed that a handful of pitchers have seen positive trends as of late. Mitch Keller, JT Brubaker, then even Bryse Wilson and Zach Thompson have seen stretches in the right direction. Although Zach Thompson did get lit up by his previous employer in his last start.

The Pirates have remained outside the NL Central cellar for majority of the season. With the most recent stretch, they unfortunately find themselves a half game from dropping below the Cubs and only two games ahead of the Reds.

If you’re team #LoseForCrews then they’re currently within arms reach of top three lottery odds.

Pirates @ Cubs

Time: 2:20 PM EST

Pirates Starter: Bryse Wilson (1-5, 6.52)

Marlins Starter: Keegan Thompson (7-4, 3.43)

Wilson Notes: Bryse Wilson has had an up-and-down season. Literally and figuratively. In his first nine appearances before being optioned on June 15th, Bryse threw 33.2 innings with a 8.29 ERA. He has made three MLB starts since his original demotion, totaling 16 innings with a 2.81 ERA. He had been recalled and subsequently optioned after the first two starts, but this will be his second start since he latest recall on July 17th. During his split time in Indianapolis he’s made six starts, throwing a total of 36.1 innings while carrying a 2.97 ERA.

LINEUPS:

Pirates

Cubs

1. Rafael Ortega (L) CF
2. Willson Contreras (R) DH
3. Seiya Suzuki (R) RF
4. Ian Happ (S) LF
5. Nico Hoerner (R) SS
6. Patrick Wisdom (R) 3B
7. Yan Gomes (R) C
8. Alfonso Rivas (L) 1B
9. Christopher Morel (R) 2B

Pirates Discussion
Subscribe
Notify of
91 Comments
Newest
Oldest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
TNBucs

What a horrible 9th for the home plate ump, coincidentally (?) after Shelton questioned something the previous inning.

PirateRican21

Delay has a crappy arm.

PirateRican21

Oneil’s agent should try to get him an Apple Watch deal.

robertkasperski

Boom!!!

skliesen

I wonder if those knuckleheads in the Pittsburgh media still think Cruz should be sent back to AAA?

NMR

They’re a lot closer to right than wrong.

NMR

My reply was to Scott’s comment, not yours. The latter is obviously ridiculous.

robertkasperski

I just hate the local media period anymore. The Fan is only concerned with sports betting because that is their main sponsor source. So all they talk about is sports betting and Steeler football, mostly what stupid moves they should make. Then Madden is just annoying anymore, even when he talks hockey and soccer too, his favorite subjects. Yes, I am a bitter old man……..

TNBucs

The PG is good overall. I think Mackey is a bit of a Shelton and Cherington apologist–it feels like he staked out a position early and isn’t willing to move off of it which undermines his “analysis” columns. But Persak has been good; for example, last night getting good quotes from Chavis and Shelton about the error and writing an article that appeared today questioning them sticking with VanMeter which included good quotes from VanMeter. Bittner has also had some good columns.

As for radio, living outside of Pittsburgh I never listen to those shows but if they’re like the sports talk shows here, I’m sure they’re not very informative.

hoffmark83

Especially the morning show with their, “Get money!” “Get money!”

robertkasperski

Idiots! Idiots I tell ya!!

skliesen

Gotta make it close. Have a reputation to uphold.

docdon385

Close losses are way more frustrating but if they’d just plug some of the holes on this team maybe they’d be close wins instead.

Jeff

Greg Brown..”frustrating Pirate offense today”
lol
has he not been watching it all year?

1979andCounting

Today’s E-6 should be charged twice. Houston, we have a problem.

skliesen

Can I take credit for that?

TNBucs

I checked before I went to bed last night and then this morning because I was expecting it to be changed 🙂

To Chavis’s credit, he took full responsibility for the play in his postgame comments, not even hinting at having an excuse. Shelton also said that the ball needed to be caught without putting any blame on the throw, which is what you want when a rookie is involved.

docdon385

Doesn’t really matter, but it’s the right call finally. BTW anyone else think maybe the Pirates could use someone to play first who actually knows how to play the position? There’s currently no one on the team who does.

skliesen

I was especially tough on Chavis last night. I think he tries really hard and has had his good moments playing the position. With that being said, he is physically hampered by his stature and he lacks experience. IMO, he should’ve never been asked to play that job. At this point in time, it doesn’t matter if they bring in a 1B, the season is lost.

But they better sort this shit out before next season.

jon6er

Brown said Shelton made the statement on Thursday that they felt under no obligation to move anyone. Doesn’t sound like they feel any urgency to sort shit out!

Wilbur Miller

Obviously, they’re very encouraged by the current clown show.

SufferinBuccotash

wtf is with ATT Sportsnet cutting away from game action to start commercial breaks today????

robertkasperski

B team running the show??

Wilbur Miller

They should plantar one on his fasciitis.

TNBucs

In a Maddon world we’d try to break a bone in his hand just so the Cubs wouldn’t get anything for him at the trade deadline. Shelton is a Maddon disciple but at least he’s not shown any inclination to hurt an opposing player.

RAS TN

It really doesn’t matter in another couple of weeks it will be Steelers Steelers and more Steelers, and if it can’t get any worse the Pirates still have not signed their #1 pick…Maybe they are saving the announcement for the next homestand…ha ha ha…

john_fluharty

Not sure the Steelers are going to be much to get excited about either

SufferinBuccotash

In another couple weeks? You mean starting today…

docdon385

At least it doesn’t look like another close loss today.

Wilbur Miller

Good thing the Pirates’ best starter is in Indianapolis. Wouldn’t want him to pick up any bad habits.

Shultzie31

Here we go again!

john_fluharty

Seems to have settled down okay after the first – just started watching myself

Wilbur Miller

There’s another? What team does he pitch for?

Shultzie31

Only one more week of half of this garbage… hopefully 🙏

PiratePrimate

That lineup looks like something you’d expect from a bad expansion team of the 60’s.

1979andCounting

The highlight of last night’s game imo was the size of the Wrigley crowd and the buzz in the stadium. A Monday night game, their team 19-games under, I was just really impressed. It gave me hope for this “dull” game of baseball that some of us still love. There are only a few markets who can pull this off……and the Cubs came thru with flying colors. Even the rooftop stands across the street were full. It really added to my TV experience.

TNBucs

I’m disappointed that Castillo didn’t get a start in either game, and of course Sunday he only had the PH opportunity. It doesn’t seem like he’s been handled well; it’s as if they’ve determined his upside is as a bench player and there’s no reason to give him a chance to show otherwise.

I do like Newman leading off much more so than VanMeter and the only change I’d make to the lineup (other than having Castillo in there) is flipping Mitchell and Cruz.

NMR

“Some of the Cardinals’ top prospects, such as third baseman Jordan Walker and second baseman Nolan Gorman, performed well. But many others, like lefthanders Matthew Liberatore and Zack Thompson, catcher Ivan Herrera and shortstop Masyn Winn, struggled through uneven or downright poor seasons, contributing to the system’s historically awful showing.

Upon reflection, Mozeliak and LaRocque diagnosed the root of the problem. They determined that following the canceled 2020 minor league season, the Cardinals were too aggressive in pushing their prospects to higher levels when play resumed in 2021. In order to get back to the organization’s standard excellence in player development, they were going to have to slow things down.”

Sure but what do they know about player development?

skliesen

But they got guys like Arrenado and Goldy to play for them until their own guys are ready. While we got Tsutsugo and JVM.

That’s the bigger issue.

NMR

I agree!! That’s my entire point!

Makes absolutely no sense to rush prospects in order to make up for shit acquisitions.

NMR

The overarching tone this board has taken on over the last year. Dude has one good game and y’all are frothing at the mouth to push him forward.

But more seriously, my view of rushing prospects is epitomized by the massive failure of the 2021 Bradenton getting pushed to Greensboro this year. I don’t think that one’s particularly arguable. And I also don’t believe in this idea of pushing everyone into the show and then backtracking them into AAA, but that’s certainly more open to debate.

NMR

The ultimate irony for me as a Pirate fan is that my favorite club is known as a laughingstock for being the League’s farm club, and now even WE are fervently pushing to literally turn the big club into a farm team.

You develop players in the minors, you win baseball games in the majors.

NMR

The first comment anyone ever makes anymore about any prospect is why they haven’t been promoted yet!

Literally nothing else matters.

I get it, this is a function of these long, slow, tanking rebuilds. We have nothing better to focus on than when somebody with a pulse may actually show up and make things interesting.

But I care about quality, not speed. The Kansas City Royals are not in the top half of baseball teams the Bucs should be striving to emulate.

I think they need to be smarter, better, than arbitrarily pushing just the tip into the next level to see what’s up. You take a player with underlying command or plate discipline issues and push him, he’s going to fail. That’s time and effort that could be spent addressing the problems at a level more conducive to learning. We need to set the bar higher than this. Promotion for the sake of promotion isn’t anywhere near what I’d call proven, let alone worthy of frothing at the mouth to see.

TNBucs

He wants to keep watching VanMeter, Chavis, Yoshi, and Marisnick and feels threatened that we might promote some prospects. 😉

agent00

looking at his scouting report, it reads similarly to harrington imo

TNBucs

To throw out a crazy idea, Cherington should put together a competitive offer for Happ. It may not be enough compared to what contenders will offer, but he could be a major boost to next year’s team and if that’s still not enough to have us in contention by the trade deadline, then we could move him to recover some of the value we gave up.

Probably the cost would be too high when we don’t have anything to really gain from having him this season, but there are only about nine players in our system I’d have as completely off limits and there is a lot of talent to offer up beyond that.

TNBucs

There are a couple of interesting articles relating to the Pirates at Fangraphs today. The first gives Szymborski’s view of the Vogelbach trade and the second gives spots 31-40 in their annual trade value series with Cruz at 38 and Reynolds at 34 with short write-ups about each.

NMR

Another Pirate reference in the trade value series:

Of the six wins we give him (Murphy) credit for over the past two years, 1.5 of those come from framing alone. That gave me pause when placing him; framing feels far less sticky these days, with pop-up guys becoming great and established framing specialists declining seemingly every year. You could have made an argument for Jacob Stallings on a trade value list last year, and indeed, the Marlins traded a bunch of players to acquire him. This year? He grades out as one of the worst framers in the game. Projecting future defensive value based on this particular skill strikes me as irresponsible, and that’s before trying to time the arrival of the robo zone.”

Catcher framing metrics are a psyop.

TNBucs

Should have mentioned that one too (I read it yesterday and had already forgotten about it :)). Yes, I liked the blurb about Marin. I’ve posted a couple of times that I’m encouraged by what I’m seeing from the pitching.

As someone who would like to see Quintana extended for a couple of years, the downside of that article is he may have priced himself out of that being a reality (it shouldn’t but we’re so conservative when it comes to handing out FA contracts that I’m afraid it does).

AdministrativeSky236

For all the flak marin has caught, he has shown some positive impact with guys like keller and q for sure

Wilbur Miller

It took a long time, but the rotation has been the main bright spot this year. “Pirates waste another strong start” could be the first sentence of nearly every game summary.

PiratePrimate

Nah, makes too much sense. We’ll go with the kids and a couple minor league free agent signings. That should get us 75 wins. That’s all this organization is shooting for. They’re just trying to put a struggling, young face on a team backed by a crook for an owner.

robertkasperski

Depends if Jose wants to see what the market is offering first. If he is, trade him after making sure he knows that they are still interested in resigning. Does no good to keep him if he intends to see what his market is.

Wilbur Miller

3 yrs $24? Nickels might spring for that. Oh . . . wait . . . .

AdministrativeSky236

Bednar, crowe, yerry, holderman, beede, and not sure who else in the pen all have an ERA in the 3s or better. Can see a solid pen forming… if used right

Wilbur Miller

It’s interesting to see which guys the analytics (like xFIP) believe in and which they don’t:

Bednar – yes
Holderman – yes
Crowe – maybe
Underwood – yes
Stratton – meh
Yerry – yes
Beede – no
Peters – no
DeJong – no
Banuelos – incomplete

AdministrativeSky236

This about matches the eye test, adding in 2 LHP would round the group out really well

TNBucs

I’d add Underwood (2.39 FIP, second only to Bednar in K’s per inning) in there too, if he isn’t traded. But right now it appears that we’ll head into ’23 with the best pen we’ve had in Cherington’s tenure (which isn’t saying much but does offer some hope).

Colin

It would be awesome to add Crews to the system. I’ll be following Thomas White up until next year’s draft. I think if he stays healthy he’s gonna be a beast

NMR

Tommy Tanks BABYYY

Colin

Did not know he transferred to LSU. That lineup is gonna be nasty next year

Colin

Lol, Tommy Tanks is a beast as well. From all I’ve been able to find on Thomas White, seems like an Ace in the making. Would definitely take Crews if possible but White is my go to if not

ArkyWags

It’s usually a poor idea to look at a guy a year out from being directed and saying he looks like an ace in the making.

Colin

Lol, when it comes to poor ideas and poor choices, that’s not uncharted territory my man

Colin

In my fantasy world, I picture him fronting the likes of RO and Quinn in the voyage of getting world serious…

Most Voted Comments

Menu
91
0
Would love your thoughts, please comment.x
()
x