P2Daily: Post Deadline Decisions Just As Crucial For The Pirates

By the time the Pirates take the field on Tuesday against the Milwaukee Brewers we may be looking at a completely different roster.

We know some of what the Pirates will be looking to do, but once they are done, what should be done in the aftermath? I take a look at three things post deadline to watch.

Roster Purge

We know Jose Quintana has more than likely played his last game with the Pirates. After a rough Spring Training, expectations weren’t terribly high, but he’s succeeded maybe even the most optimistic predictions. The only thing left is to see what he can get into return.

At some point it would be ideal for the Pirates to lock up a veteran pitcher (or two) to ideally multi-year contracts to take some of the pressure off the younger players coming up, but Quintana isn’t likely to be the start of that. Ben Gamel is the other name that could get moved, but seeing as he’s a fourth outfielder on most teams looking to acquire players, I’m not sure what the return would look like.

This is where it gets tricky. There are other veterans on the roster, and while it isn’t a bad thing to keep a couple around, there hasn’t really been anyone that has really made a case to make it past the deadline. Some would even say there’s more of an issue that they’ve made it to the deadline.

If either of Yoshi Tsutsugo or Josh VanMeter had done more than they currently have, one would have ideally made for a platoon partner at first base with Michael Chavis. Even with the letters struggles against righties, neither Tsutsugo or VanMeter have done much to say they’d be a better option than Chavis playing full-time.

Time to move on.

Bring On (More) Of The Kids

We’ve seen our fair share of rookies make their way to Pittsburgh season and make their debuts. There are a few names still in the minors that haven’t made their debut yet that are building cases to see this year, this is more about getting those who got brief looks, extended looks.

The Pirates have another 40-man/Rule 5 roster crunch coming this off-season, and won’t be bailed out by the League canceling it. They have some stuff to figure out, and some names they need to really evaluate if they are a part of the bigger picture.

That includes getting Jack Suwinski, Tucupita Marcano, and even Travis Swaggerty back up here for another look.

It means getting Colin Holderman, the player acquired in exchange for Daniel Vogelbach, up here for a look. The Pirates didn’t bring in enough veterans to offset the rookies, so just bring in as many of the young guys as possible.

Kevin Newman Revenge Tour

Since returning from injury, it’s crazy to say, but Kevin Newman has been one of the team’s better hitters. That’s probably both good and bad. It’s good to see him playing well when everyone kept writing him off. Bad that with who is on the roster right now, this shouldn’t be the case.

In the month of July, Newman has slashed .315/.359/.452 with nine extra-base hits and six RBI.

The only issue is that a lot of the hitting metrics that have plagued Newman (weak contact, etc.) still aren’t working in his favor so you have to wonder how long he can keep this up.

If there is anyone who seems like a perfect candidate to fill that veteran role – how does a right-handed middle infielder that was a Gold Glove finalist sound?

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Yesterday: Po-Yu Chen Dominates; Jase Bowen and Dariel Lopez Each Homer Twice

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Today: Roansy Contreras Pitches, Jase Bowen and Fabricio Macias Home Runs

Yesterday: Jared Triolo Web Gem, Colin Selby Strikeout, Jack Suwinski Double

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Yesterday: Sunday Funday; Hayes Scratched Late

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Timbertopper

Love David Bednar but if GMBC could get a return in the ballpark of what Milwaukee got from San Diego for Hader, wouldn’t he have to pull that trigger?

leefieux

Keith Law has Davis, Johnson, Priester and Davis in his top 60 (none in Top 20).
Peguero, Burrows and Nicky the K are nowhere to be found not even Hon Men.

I know he doesn’t like Burrows and am not surprised that G and P have dropped. Peguero looked so good early on. 🙁

Not looking good for us, because this seems to be the sentiment amongst prospect rankers.

jsdspud

This team was watchable around late June when a lot of the has beens and never weres were placed on the IL. They all returned and not only is the team unwatchable, they have lost 7 in row and 11 of 13 or 14 or something.

It is long past time to purge this roster and let the kids play. This is especially true with the pending 40 man roster crunch.

GMBC traded for all of these kids, yet he acquired Van Meter and Tsutsugo on the slim chance that their major league staff could improve them enough to trade for another prospect.

I haven’t attended a game yet this year and I don’t have any desire until the roster changes.

Off topic, but whose idea was it to sit Cruz on Saturday night when the park was nearly sold out? That reminded me of earlier this year when Hayes & Reynolds sat on a kids Sunday, with an off day schedule for Monday and a road trip on Tuesday. Let’s rest the only two players that kids could name on a kids day, what a wonderful idea. If you want to give them 2 days off in a row, rest them on the road.

hoptown

What I’d do:
1. Trade Quintana for as much as you can get. Insert Contreras into his spot.
2. Trade Gamel for anything you can get. Release him otherwise. Call up Swaggerty.
3. Release Van 0fer. Call up Marcano.
4. Release Yoshi. Call up Suwinski.
5. Trade or release Stratton. Call up Holderman.
6. Get Bae healthy and call him up in Sept.

docdon385

The payroll will have to decrease to some extent if the Pirates finally decide to cut loose most or all of the veterans on the current roster. If that occurs, what will happen to that money?

People seem to assume that saving 3 million by ditching Newman and 4 with Yoshi will clear 7 million for someone else. Of course the numbers aren’t actually that because it’s just part of the year but you get the idea. Even if that were the case, no where that I know of is it written what happens to that money.

Will the savings be put back into the team through free agency or maybe re-signing some of the younger players everyone hopes will be part of the future or will it simply be another windfall for ownership? That’s pretty much what’s happened in the past. Where did the money go after McCutchen and Cole were traded? The payroll went down and has never gone back up. Looking at the bottom line profit is how Nutting keeps score. Why change anything as long as he’s winning?

The sad reality, that no one including myself wants to face, is that if ownership doesn’t plan to spend some significant money on improving this team there is no way it will ever develop onto a winner regardless of how many prospects it has. I know a lot of people enjoy watching prospects develop through the minors and that can be fun, but the additions of decent free agents and trades of those prospects for proven veteran players who by definition will cost more money must be in the plan for the Pirates to become contenders again. Is it?

Fingers crossed that Nutting finally decides he has enough money? I guess we can hope, but it would be nice to actually see some real moves in that direction before the 2023 season rolls around. The money’s there. Will he allow BC to spend any of it???

Wilbur Miller

Derek’s list of post-deadline decisions:

Bat Yoshi 8th or 9th?
Bat VanMeter 1st or 2nd? Maybe cleanup?
Give Yerry one or two weeks between appearances?
Can Marisnick play 2B?
Is Castillo still here? I forget . . . .
Who pitches the seventh inning on Sept. 23? Can’t leave that to the last minute.

Catch_22

didn’t Yerry just pitch in back to back games?
Castillo is where he belongs

Last edited 1 month ago by Catch_22
beaverjp

Does Kevin Newman deserve to play on this roster?..no brainer..should you pay him $3m in arb because your lineup is weak?.. or should you cobble $7/$8m (yoshi+Newman rolloffs) and find a legitimate everyday player

NMR

Is it 2010?

You’ve got a hell of a better chance at Newman being a legit everyday player at $3m than finding one in free agency for $7m.

beaverjp

maybe it’s $10m lots of guys at that range, sure but there are Kolton Wongs and Darnauds under 10 and better than newman when they’re in a down year, unless you’re buying into 114wrc on 84ev and 357 babip no way to counter. The fault of the pirates is that they can’t replace Newman’s 1.8 war baseline with a pre arb and use savings to pay better upside basically guys who have 3 win potential. we can be highly cynical and say they won’t find better upside at that price range but the pirates don’t have a choice like it or not they have to thrive at that end of the market. in time 3m of newman, 3m of Stratton and however much Chavis costs adds up to one upside signing, and if it is at 2b 1b rf it’s a better team and your farm system should be able to replace any of these guys so the rest of the team doesn’t lose production. otherwise you’re just holding for dear life hoping that a player you know very well is something you’ve never seen. I’m not saying newman individually is bad to keep but collecting arb guys that don’t look they’re going anywhere is a bad habit. In a world where chad kuhl doesn’t implode, I still swap him out with a $2m quintana every time. ideally a prudent team keeps newman and spends more money elsewhere and raises the budget but Elon musk hasn’t created that world for us yet.

Cobra

The sad part is that — even in 2010 — about 25 teams had higher payrolls than our 2022 Pirates. https://www.nytimes.com/1998/12/29/sports/baseball-some-teams-salaries-to-surpass-80-million.html

Born4rf

Cannot upvote this sentiment enough!

Last edited 1 month ago by Born4rf
Catch_22

As the leader of the Kevin Newman Fan Club, it’s nice to see him on a roll…dude is en fuego.

You’re not getting much for Ben Gamel. I’d DFA both Yosh and JVM, but Chavis is going to get exposed and then some. None of the 3 are particularly good at anything. There’s probably a real good reason Madris isn’t playing 1b. Maybe they saw something in his handful of audition starts in AAA. If you guys actually think Bligh Madris is the answer at 1b, I feel bad for you. Sad part is they have literally nothing in the minors. Martin and Citta would be like Will Craig, but worse. Cherington needs to scour the wire or someone like Dom Smith might be had for pennies on the dollar.

ishman

Sign Mancini as a FA this off-season.

James_Robert5

I love the return for Baltimore in the Mancini trade (even with the TJS for Johnson)

NMR

Stoked to see Newman carving out a long term big league role. Great dude.

skliesen

Dear Pirates fans,

Prepare to be disappointed, err, prepare to CONTINUE to be disappointed.

Sincerely,

Pirates Management

Catch_22

Of course I’m going to disappointed. The team f*cking sucks.

Does it make it better that they’ll limp to 100 losses with a bunch of bad prospects?

The only prospects that I give 2 sh*ts about are Cruz & Suwinski. They’re really the only ones that have a realistic shot at being on the next winning team. Then again, do you actually think Ben can assemble a playoff roster? I thought last season was rock bottom, yet here we are.

Last edited 1 month ago by Catch_22
Catch_22

Beastie Boys! Man, Murph, you been spinning some oldies but goodies!

NMR

Nothin’ but bangers lately, Murph.

TNBucs

Good column from FiveThirtyEight using their annual Doyle Number rankings to suggest that the trade deadline may not be as active as in the past due to the expanded playoffs. One of the more interesting parts of the story is a table showing which positions contending teams should be willing to give up the most future WAR to upgrade. If Quintana is our best asset, then the Braves might be our best trading partner:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/mlbs-expanded-postseason-changed-the-trade-deadline-and-maybe-not-for-the-better/

GlypheNotes

I would support trading some lesser prospects and/or take on some reasonable salary/arbitration commitments, replacing Yoshi, Van Meter, and Gamel with higher upside veterans. Specifically, Bellinger and Muncy but I’m sure there are more options in every division.

Using the Dodgers as an example, if LA is trying to trade for a star like Soto, the Nats are not likely to value arb year guys over high end prospects. And the Dodgers might need to clear some roster space and playing time, maybe want to replenish some minor league depth with a few of the surplus position players in the Pirates upper minors.

It’s probably not realistic, but it would be a more interesting and impactful approach to this year’s deadline since they don’t have any difference-makers to offer a contender — buy the good-ish players a contender might find challenging to retain during a pennant race.

leefieux

After the meager return for Tyler Anderson last year, I am not expecting much of a haul for Q. In fact, if the best we can do is a wild FSL pitcher and a backup catcher, then I’d just keep Q.

tmcgowan

Unrelated, but have you seen the season Anderson is having with LAD? 11-1, 110 IP, 2.61 ERA and a 3.21 FIP. Not striking guys out but only change I could see was he seemed to discover how to throw his changeup slightly slower for more separation and making it a plus pitch.

This deadline…I’d trade some guys for the dodgers analytics and coaching staff….

Timbertopper

Good point! Payroll is important but it’s not a magic bullet. Not so much what you spend as who you spend it on (see Angels, California; Red Sox, Boston; et al)

roibert.kasperski

Q will most likely be gone in the off season as he is a FA. If there is not a bidding war to sign him the the Bucs will have a decent chance at resigning him whether he is traded now or not. I would rather get a lotto pick or two and still have a chance to resign him than lose him for nothing if he does,sign elsewhere for more money than he should be signed for.

Last edited 1 month ago by roibert.kasperski
jeffw3000

Anderson was not near as good and consistent as Quintana has been. Quintana has only had 4 starts he gave up 4 or more runs. Quintana has held the opposition to 2 or fewer runs in 13 of his starts and zero runs in 4 starts. Anderson held them to 2 or fewer in half of his starts, and zero runs only 1 time. Anderson’s success this season has been as big a surprise as Quintana. He started the year in the pen. I would not expect a huge return from Anderson last year, but Quintana is the type of veteran starter a contender would want to add at the deadline.

TNBucs

I know Ben said the other day that we were probably done with draft signings. Any hope there that we do add a player or two today? If not, I still feel good about the draft but will be a little disappointed that they didn’t use rounds 11-20 to fully use their resources–I think this would be the first time since the draft cap era that we haven’t spent the full amount.

RAS TN

Newman is the near-perfect backup at 2nd base and SS, enough said on that…Again, it would be a shame to trade Quintana he like Newman are the veteran presences that this team needs at least thru 2023…

The Pirates do not need any-more Rule 5 players in exchange for real MLB players…

There is more than enough driftwood on the major league roster to clear out to make room for what possible prospects the Pirates have without trading the ones who really do have ability and major league skill…

TNBucs

Agreed–they should not be looking to trade Newman as there are still too many questions about the middle infield to move forward without someone like him on the roster.

RAS TN

You forgot to include Quintana, the same exact reasoning…

TNBucs

Yes, unless they get a surprisingly good offer for Quintana, better than what we got for Anderson last year, then I’d hold on to him. It gives us a better chance to keep him next year (and manage his health in case we are able to keep him) and there is something to be said for playing well down the stretch (or over any extended period of time, but we’re down to two months for that to happen this year).

As a somewhat related aside, I hope that Shelton has to show some decent results/evidence of growth down the stretch to keep his job. If that’s the case, he should be lobbying hard to keep Quintana. I worry, though, that with this administration they’re happy to just keep pushing the goalposts back. A trade of Quintana fits with that.

k1rainey

Trading Quintana actually may give the bucs a better chance to sign him for next year. He might appreciate the chance to show off his talent and have a chance in the playoffs. If he doesn’t do well for his new team and doesn’t get great offers he may sign with the bucs short term again and look to repeat the process.

chappy

Not that it means anything in reality, but in my world Ben Cherington is now officially “on the clock”, after this trading deadline. This has been his time to trade and draft. I really need to see a team that is beginning to try and build a winning roster. On that note, I like the idea of keeping Newman around. Despite Reynold’s struggles, he needs to stay. I want to see youth getting their at-bats and innings, even if it means taking their lumps. I know there was an argument for sending g Suwinski down, but I think he would have been better served just working through adjustments to MLB pitching. Bring him back up for Tuesday’s game! Same with Marcano and Swaggerty. That begins to be a team I can watch, with the anticipation of many more arrivals next year. I also would be fine with them trying to sign Quintana rather than trading him, unless the return they can get is too good to pass up.

Last edited 1 month ago by chappy
john_fluharty

If Tsutsugo and VanMeter are still around after the deadline, I will really begin to question the front office’s motives.

GlypheNotes

that would be the last straw, eh? so soon?

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