Prospect Roundtable: Which Pirates MiLB Rule 5 Loss Would You Have Kept?

The Pittsburgh Pirates lost 11 players in the minor league phase of the 2022 Rule 5 draft. To read up on all of the players lost, check out John Dreker’s scouting reports from after the draft.

It’s alarming to see the Pirates raided for so much talent, although some of what happened reflects the depth of the system. For this week’s Roundtable, I asked our writers which prospect they would have liked to keep around from the minor league phase. That means no Blake Sabol. I also asked for everyone’s top three guys lost, to give a better idea of the consensus losses.

For quick reference, the players lost in the minor league Rule 5 draft:

Joelvis Del Rosario, Joe Jacquez, Wilkin Ramos, Domingo Gonzalez, Austin Roberts, Jared Oliva, Trey McGough, Enmanuel Mejia, Cristian Charle, Peter Solomon, Yoyner Fajardo

Which player would you have liked to see the Pirates keep?

JOHN DREKER: Joelvis Del Rosario, RHP

Top 3 Lost: Joelvis Del Rosario, Jared Oliva, Domingo Gonzalez

Joelvis Del Rosario was a shocking name to hear in the minor league Rule 5 draft. You don’t see that type of talent, at his age, available on the minor league side for good reason. It’s the same good reason that he was the first selection overall in the draft. You have a 21-year-old, who sits mid-90s with a fastball and shows a solid changeup with good separation. He threw a low-90s sinker and a low-80s slider. It’s a strong four-pitch mix that he controls well. It also led to solid stats in Bradenton. By deciding to leave him off of the Triple-A roster, the Pirates guaranteed themselves an easy $24,000. That’s all it cost the Oakland A’s to acquire a young pitcher with potential starter upside in a draft that has zero strings attached.

If this loss was a numbers game decision, then you can just pass it off as the Pirates having a wealth of depth that led to him getting squeezed off. However, they went into the minor league Rule 5 draft with seven open roster spots. That decision led to 11 players being selected, when 3-4 is a normal number. It was actually a combo of decisions that led to this happening.

You can take a look at the Pirates current roster and see room to add Blake Sabol, Matt Gorski and Malcom Nunez without creating any losses to open up spots. By leaving those three available, it trickles down to the Triple-A roster. They then take away spots that could have easily been used for minor league players. You shouldn’t lose anyone on the minor league side with any type of upside.

A minor league Rule 5 draft should almost be an after thought, but this turned into an embarrassment. The total amount of money they got back for those players (minus the two they took) is almost worthless in baseball terms, which is why you don’t leave good players unprotected. It’s not even 1/3rd of a big league minimum salary. That’s not a good use of minor league depth. It’s the type of money you would gladly hand over for a player similar to, oh let’s say, Joelvis Del Rosario.

Joelvis Del Rosario is Starting to Make a Name For Himself

ETHAN HULLIHEN: Joelvis Del Rosario, RHP

Top 3 Lost: Joelvis Del Rosario, Cristian Charle, Enmanuel Mejia

As I live tweeted the minor league phase of the Rule 5 Draft from my kitchen table while eating dinner, I was most surprised by Cristian Charle (pictured above) going, so maybe I could say him. Or maybe Enmanuel Mejia, who I picked as a dark horse Rule 5 add for 2022, after his great 2021.

I’ll go with Joelvis Del Rosario though, just because he was still starting, and the other two were already relievers. I won’t get worked up about losing low level relievers though—what I really want to do is use this space to talk about the reaction this result is creating from some places.

Yes, the Pirates lost 11 players, which is a lot. It felt like every other pick was a Pirate, so much so that at one point my wife asked “are they going to have any players left”—and she knows nothing about any of this.

However, I was probably one of the only scribes locally to even consider this event before 5 o’clock yesterday, and as I looked over my article from a few weeks back, I think I at least had the right idea.

I started with quite a large list, eventually got that down to 52, meaning I had to leave out at least 14 players to whittle it down to 38. Two selected (Oliva and Solomon) came from that list, while McGough probably should have, but with his injury I truly didn’t think he’d be considered, so I left him off.

As for the other players selected, here is something I wrote as a precursor to the excluded list, with bolded text for emphasis:

Here they are, and this goes with the obvious disclaimer that any of these names could quite easily be transposed with another from above.

I think this is just a good snapshot of how deep the system goes with usable players that have qualities to like, along with the fact that only so many can be protected.

My 38 were obviously not hard and fast—the front office knows who they like more than I do, and they will have a different view of the players on the fringe than I would. So, it’s not surprising that some players I thought may get protected (Mejia, Austin Roberts, Charle, Del Rosario, Wilkin Ramos) would be seen differently by the organization and swapped out for someone else.

Not for nothing, but the team has been intentionally horrible for three years, collecting as many players as they can in an effort to have an endless horde of prospects that will someday beat down the doors at PNC Park all at the same time. The fact that other teams may have liked some of those players and took the shot to have them for free isn’t exactly surprising. What’s surprising was how the team played the roster management aspect.

It was announced before the minor league phase that they had a reserve list of 31. Presumably they started at 32, but Sabol was selected, leaving them with seven available slots. If their plan was to use those six slots—why else keep so many?—then losing a few players wouldn’t have been as big of a deal, as they would have swapped out players of generally the same caliber while using the excuse of a maxed-out list for losing more than picking.

The thing is, they selected two, made an attempt at a third, and after not realizing they couldn’t select a player on the restricted list, they ending up passing on any further selections. That left them with a reserve list of 33 and five slots that would just disappear after the draft (the minor league reserve list is not like the major league one—its main intention is for this very event). That means they just threw away five slots, either because they were woefully ill prepared or just didn’t care all that much. Either option isn’t great.

So, yeah, is it embarrassing (for lack of a better word) that a team lost 11 prospects to minor league draft? Maybe, but they likely won’t end up amounting to much, and that’s not what I want to focus on. The roster management was the embarrassing part, and the worst part of it was it didn’t have to be that way. Either protect a few more players that had a chance to be picked, or fill every spot with a player if that was the intention.

Not knowing the rules and presumably having no backup plan (when simply picking the next player on your working list would have sufficed) was by far the bigger embarrassment. 

WILBUR MILLER: Cristian Charle, RHP

Top 3 Lost: Cristian Charle, Trey McGough, Wilkin Ramos

The Pirates didn’t bother to use a whole bunch of their Triple-A roster spots and, as a result, they lost a huge chunk of their mid-level pitching. Of course, everybody involved was a long shot ever to do anything in the majors, but with so many guys, the long odds aren’t quite so long. Trey McGough, who still has a lot of his Tommy John recovery to get through, is interesting as a near-the-majors lefty starter with outstanding control. Lefty submariner Joe Jacques is interesting because . . . lefty submariner. Domingo Gonzalez had a very strong finish to 2022 after moving to relief and Joelvis Del Rosario, a similar pitcher, is still only 21 and should move forward as a starter. Wilkin Ramos, long considered a projection guy, finally started to . . . project, reaching the upper-90s and mainly needing to improve his control.

But the most annoying loss is Cristian Charle. After not showing much previously, he had a strong season in relief at both class A stops and should have gone to Altoona this year. He throws in the mid-90s and has a secondary pitch that’s been described by different sources as either a change or cutter. The confusion may stem from the fact that he varies the velocity quite a bit. His command is good now and he’s usually had good K rates. If he continued to develop well, he could have been a major league option in a year and a half or so.

ANTHONY MURPHY: Domingo Gonzalez, RHP

Top 3 Lost: Domingo Gonzalez, Joelvis Del Rosario, Cristian Charle

A lot of the names listed seem like a longshot at this point to make the majors, or like in the case of Jared Oliva, struggle to stick around or make an impact. Joelvis Del Rosario was an interesting name, as he pitched well in Bradenton but didn’t do much in the strikeout department, and didn’t exactly have the most ideal frame for a pitcher.

I actually wrote an article about Domingo Gonzalez that was set to run next week, which is why he truly showed up on my radar and is one of the few that I believe could make it to the majors out of this list.

He seemed to find another gear when he made the move to the bullpen, as from June 25th through the rest of the season, he posted a 3.26 ERA as a reliever. His sinker/slider combination was a good one, and suffered from a higher than average home run/fly ball rate (not really a surprise playing in Greensboro) while getting ground balls over 50% of the time.

JEFF REED: Trey McGough, LHP

Top 3 Lost: Trey McGough, Domingo Gonzalez, Joelvis Del Rosario

The biggest loss in the minor league portion of the Rule 5 draft to me was Trey McGough. 

Going into 2022, I was looking forward to how he fared in Triple-A after tossing 113.0 innings the year prior with a 3.19 ERA. That included 95.0 IP in Altoona with a 3.41 ERA. Unfortunately, his season was cut short with Indianapolis when he required Tommy John surgery. 

McGough wasn’t flashy or going to blow anyone away with a fastball that sat low-90’s, but he knew how to pitch. He kept batters guessing and would work all his pitches around the zone. Need I mention the fact he is also left-handed, something the upper levels is very short of. 

Had it not been for surgery, McGough had a good chance to become the Pittsburgh Pirates first 2019 draft pick to debut for them, during the 2022 season. Ironically, that accomplishment now stands to become Blake Sabol’s as part of the San Francisco Giants having been drafted in the major league portion of the Rule 5 draft. 

I’m sure the Front Office assumed he was unlikely to be taken, given he was recovering from Tommy John surgery, but I’m still surprised he was left unprotected. He’ll be 25 in March, and should have returned to the mound sometime in the summer to fall. He appeared to have an advanced understanding of pitching which should have boded well in his recovery and allowed him to regain his status upon return.

TIM WILLIAMS: Joelvis Del Rosario, RHP

Top 3 Lost: Joelvis Del Rosario, Domingo Gonzalez, Jared Oliva

I was surprised that the Pirates lost Joelvis Del Rosario, simply because you don’t see 21-year-old minor league starters lost in this phase of the Rule 5 draft. Del Rosario pitched 93 innings last year in High-A Bradenton, with a 3.68 ERA, a 7.35 K/9, and a 2.42 BB/9.

As I wrote last night in P2Daily, while Del Rosario was a starter in 2022, he might not be a starter in 2023. The Pirates are currently projected to send Bubba Chandler, Anthony Solometo, Carlos Jimenez, Po-Yu Chen, and Valentin Linarez to Greensboro in 2023. That’s five starters who rate higher than Del Rosario. They also have Luis Peralta, who I would use as the sixth guy.

Del Rosario looks like he would have followed the Domingo Gonzalez path — mostly a starter in Single-A, moving to long-relief in High-A, and likely following that by fighting for a middle relief spot in Double-A. The Pirates also lost Gonzalez, and his chance of being a sleeper reliever in the majors one day is a small loss. It is a loss where the team has depth, and you can’t keep everyone.

Remember, the purpose of this draft is to prevent hoarding of talent. Del Rosario and Gonzalez are good pitchers who could both pitch in an MLB bullpen one day. Right now, they’re unlikely to get the playing time in Pittsburgh’s system to develop into that future. Jared Oliva is in the same situation, surrounded by so many younger outfielders in the upper levels of the minors.

Del Rosario would be the player I’d try to keep from a value perspective. I say that, knowing he has no place in the Greensboro rotation. There are a few ways you can solve that problem. One is by rostering him and trying to trade him or a similar pitcher during the offseason. Another would be giving one of those Greensboro guys an aggressive push to Altoona, where the pitching isn’t as deep.

All of the Rule 5 losses are small-scale losses, but it didn’t seem like the Pirates needed to lose anyone. They intended to use open spaces on minor league free agents, but this doesn’t explain why they didn’t leave themselves the contingency of protecting players in the event that they don’t sign free agents.

My guess is that they have a plan on who they want for the minor league system, and that plan isn’t going to unfold in linear fashion. Right now, it looks like they left a lot of players unprotected who would have been squeezed for playing time. My guess is the open minor league space will be used for players where they don’t have depth.

The one player they lost who didn’t come from an area of depth was Yoyner Fajardo, who is a second baseman with so much torque in his swing, and good plate patience, but was obviously never high in the development plans for this front office. Fajardo is the other side of the coin, someone who could see opportunity in Altoona, but who probably isn’t going to surpass all of the middle infield options ahead of him. It wouldn’t surprise me to see the Pirates go with a veteran in Altoona, rather than a wild card like Fajardo, giving them quick access to an emergency option earlier in the year.

In a vacuum, you want to keep as many players as possible. Under the current rules, and with roster limitations, you still would probably want to retain Del Rosario and Gonzalez, and maybe a few other players. This isn’t a huge mistake, but it does raise some questions about the preparedness for this draft. Those questions will probably be answered with minor league free agent deals going forward.

Tim started Pirates Prospects in 2009 from his home in Virginia, which was 40 minutes from where Pedro Alvarez made his pro debut in Lynchburg. That year, the Lynchburg Hillcats won the Carolina League championship, and Pirates Prospects was born from Tim's reporting along the way. The site has grown over the years to include many more writers, and Tim has gone on to become a credentialed MLB reporter, producing Pirates Prospects each year, and will publish his 11th Prospect Guide this offseason. He has also served as the Pittsburgh Pirates correspondent for Baseball America since 2019. Behind the scenes, Tim is an avid music lover, and most of the money he gets paid to run this site goes to vinyl records.

John started working at Pirates Prospects in 2009, but his connection to the Pittsburgh Pirates started exactly 100 years earlier when Dots Miller debuted for the 1909 World Series champions. John was born in Kearny, NJ, two blocks from the house where Dots Miller grew up. From that hometown hero connection came a love of Pirates history, as well as the sport of baseball.

When he didn't make it as a lefty pitcher with an 80+ MPH fastball and a slider that needed work, John turned to covering the game, eventually focusing in on the prospects side, where his interest was pushed by the big league team being below .500 for so long. John has covered the minors in some form since the 2002 season, and leads the draft and international coverage on Pirates Prospects. He writes daily on Pittsburgh Baseball History, when he's not covering the entire system daily throughout the entire year on Pirates Prospects.

A longtime Pirates Prospects reader, Ethan has been covering payroll, transactions, and rules in-depth since 2018 and dabbling in these topics for as long as he can remember. He started writing about the Pirates at The Point of Pittsburgh before moving over to Pirates Prospects at the start of the 2019 season.

Always a lover of numbers and finding an answer, Ethan much prefers diving into these topics over what’s actually happening on the field. These under and often incorrectly covered topics are truly his passion, and he does his best to educate fans on subjects they may not always understand, but are important nonetheless.

When he’s not updating his beloved spreadsheets, Ethan works full-time as an accountant, while being a dad to two young daughters and watching too many movies and TV shows at night.

Having followed the Pirates fanatically since 1965, Wilbur Miller is one of the fast-dwindling number of fans who’ve actually seen good Pirate teams. He’s even seen Hall-of-Fame Pirates who didn’t get traded mid-career, if you can imagine such a thing. His first in-person game was a 5-4, 11-inning win at Forbes Field over Milwaukee (no, not that one). He’s been writing about the Pirates at various locations online for over 20 years. It has its frustrations, but it’s certainly more cathartic than writing legal stuff. Wilbur is retired and now lives in Bradenton with his wife and three temperamental cats.

Anthony began writing over 10 years ago, starting a personal blog to cover the 2011 MLB draft, where the Pirates selected first overall. After bouncing around many websites covering hockey, he refocused his attention to baseball, his first love when it comes to sports. He eventually found himself here at Pirates Prospects in late 2021, where he covers the team’s four full season minor league affiliates.

Raised in Cranberry Twp, PA, Jeff attended Kent State University and worked in Cleveland and Pittsburgh, before moving to New Orleans in September of 2012. His background is as an Engineering Designer, but he has always had a near unhealthy passion for Pittsburgh sports. Hockey and Baseball are his 1A and 1B, combined with his mathematical background, it's led to Jeff's desire in diving into analytics. Jeff is known as Bucs'N'Pucks in the comments, and began writing for Pirates Prospects in 2022 after contributing so many useful bits of information in the comment section.

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pittsburghbob69

Are the writers on this site done with the stupid comment “every organization has tons of guys like this”. That stupid trope that is repeated by Pirates writers.

Da, da, da, da, da, da, 100 guys like this in every organization..lol. Ya, then why were 11 Pirates taken in the MiLB portion?

Blake Sabol was the best prospect taken in the Rule 5 too. Maybe Noda or Thad Ward. But I’m taking Sabol cause he can catch. And so would many prospect “experts” or prospect fans.

Last edited 1 month ago by pittsburghbob69
pittsburghbob69

Btw, I’m happy for Sabol too. Happy he gets a shot at the MLB level. I just wish it was in Pittsburgh.

Ryan_Vogels__t

All I can say is goodbye, Yoyner!! You could have been a star here in Pittsburgh. Imagine Craig Brown, with tears in his eyes, getting to say for the first time “and a trip-trip-triple Yoi for Yoyner!” It would have been a marriage made in Myron Cope’s image!

Anthony

What’s Palacios’s story? Looks like he missed some time in 2021, but boy can this kid rake!

Wilbur Miller

Hand injury.

TNBucs

I think one of the things that bugs me about this is that it doesn’t fit the player-centric development system we hear Baker and others boast about. It’s hard to make the case that you care about/believe in your players when you don’t protect as many as you can. Instead, the mismanagement of the AAA roster creates an impression that if a player isn’t a top prospect, then he’s interchangeable with other minor leaguers out there. While that is mostly true in a cold, hard business sense, it doesn’t feel consistent with everything else we’ve been hearing. As Wilbur says, they can talk the talk, but…

bianco599

I bet a lot of the friends/teammates of the guys left unprotected in the minor league Rule 5 lost a lot of respect for the front office. That is assuming that they had any respect to begin with. Then if any make it to the Bigs and reach arbitration they will get shafted again by the Bucco’s. Circle of Pirates as Sir Elton John once sang.

RaisetheJollyRancherGirl

Wait, why? All of these guys are presumably going to systems with a plan to make use of them. By leaving them unprotected, the Pirates put it out there that there were players in front of them. That seems like a nice thing for those players.

TNBucs

This is true with the major league portion of the Rule 5 because it gives the player a 26-man spot, but with the minor league portion there is nothing like that. For example, Rosario won’t be on the 40-man and will likely play at the same level he would have played with us. There might be a slight benefit to going to an organization that wanted him but that’s balanced by losing the connection to the development staff that he’s worked with. It won’t be until next year’s Rule 5 when a team has to make a commitment to him.

I do agree that if the Pirates really didn’t see a way for a player to advance because of their position on the depth chart, then they did the player a favor. That’s the case with Oliva and I’m happy for him to go to an organization where there isn’t as much OF depth in the upper levels. But guys like Rosario? I don’t think any small advantage outweighs the disadvantages to his development, unless one thinks that we still don’t develop pitchers as well as other organizations. If you go back and read John’s article on Rosario from last season, all of that praise by his coach at Bradenton falls flat now. What’s the next player in that position going to think? Does this organization really believe in me like they say?

bianco599

You answered it way better than I could of.

Bucs'N'Pucks (Jeff Reed)

Another aspect I thought of that wasn’t necessarily touched on is, it isn’t necessarily that this collection of minor leaguers were of the utmost potential, but they could’ve traded a group of other more well thought of prospects for a big leaguer or better upper level player and still had some of these guys to backfill.

Again to how they’ve been table pounding about depth and building up the farm, only to essentially just lose a whole group.

TNBucs

I was hoping we’d see a prospects-for-established-big-leaguer trade (we’d be getting the MLB player) this offseason, but the loss in depth makes me think that is less likely to happen (if there ever was a non-zero chance of it happening).

emjayinTN

I think that could be a possibility if the Pirates quit buying cheap veterans to fill out the roster. Choi and Santana just replaced the 2022 1B group of Chavis, Vogelbach, and Castillo who replaced the 2021 1B group of Moran, Nogowski, Evans, and Tsutsugo. We are getting better each year, but we need to develop a 1B from within during 2023.

Choi was an 834 OPS hitter in the first half of 2022, and a 565 OPS in the 2nd half – nuff said? Santana could be a valuable addition because of his defense and his ability to control a clubhouse. If Nunez starts well at AAA I would have him up by July working with Santana.

Solidify the IF and OF this year; pitching should be much better overall in 2023, and then go from there to find needed parts. Two youngsters in the Rotation (Contreras, Oviedo), 6 or 7 strong SP’s at AAA. See where that goes this year, and then the possibility exists that some really experienced young pitchers could be available at the trading deadline.

RaisetheJollyRancherGirl

Bucs should trade for Alek Thomas. Good defender in CF who had a tough debut at the plate after a few years of destroying the minors offensively. He’d leave Bae at 2b and push Reynolds to LF and we could offload some of our MIF glut. Snakes are reportedly fielding trades on him and their other two non Carroll OFs.

piratemike

Didn’t read the article, doesn’t matter they are gone so what’s the point.

1979andCounting

The Pirates just read the memo that Milb is getting contracted by two teams. Two years late.

73ffemt

Probably local bias for me but losing McGough hurt. Especially with the lack of LHP options that we have. Definitely someone I could see impacting the bullpen in Pittsburgh.

jon6er

At least I know I’m not insane, because I didn’t expect a different result from this front office, lol.

Scam likely

My 2 cents , drafted a lot of college arms and they need the inning to pitch. Also their seemed to be a bit of a bottle neck at fcl/Bradenton last yr. so may they just trying to thin the pitching herd out a little bit. But they are going to have to get guys on the fast track so they can get a better handle on this roster crunch.

john_fluharty

I thought about that too, but there’s better ways to thin the pitching.

docdon385

So the underlying question appears to be does BC know what he’s doing and that has no answer until the results are in. This Rule 5 fiasco is now just water under the bridge, spilled milk or whatever other idiom you like but it makes very little difference at least for now.

A more immediate concern, for me anyhow, is what he is doing or mostly not doing to improve the Pirates now and for the near future. During the winter meetings the Cardinals signed Contreras to fill in for Molina’s retirement, the Cubs signed Berllinger and Taillon and the Pirates did, uh, basically nothing. OK a little bit but not much. The teams the Pirates are supposed to compete with did things to improve while the Pirates major news was messing up the Rule 5 draft. Still waiting and hoping here.

RAS TN

None…

clemo83

This whole thing seems pretty bizarre, and I don’t know if this signals gross roster mismanagement or not. These are not notable prospects. I think that if I were new to following the team, this would be very upsetting, but experience tells me this doesn’t matter.

John Dreker

It’s supposed to not matter, but you also don’t see players like Del Rosario, Gonzalez, Mejia, Charle, Roberts, McGough all available in these things, so now it does matter for two reasons. The first being how and why it happened, and the second being the possibility of losing someone who develops into a prospect. To me it’s just bad enough that it happened and anything down the line that occurs from these players will just be piling on

emjayinTN

Del Rosario was a personal favorite because I saw him pitch down at Pirate City against a team of talented players from the Orioles earlier this year. He looked good. Tim mentioned he pitched at A+ this year, but it was A Bradenton.

Watching pitchers getting poached is going to be a continuing reality simply because the talented kids are maturing and showing their talent. The Pirates are deep – our MLB Rotation could be 6 or 7 deep and is mindful of those in 2013/14 if Contreras and Oviedo do as we hope . We will be at least 7 strong SP’s deep at AAA, and it pushes downward from there, and upward from where Chandler, Solometo, Jones, Harrington, Barco, Kennedy, etc. will be pushing upwards.

John Dreker

For me personally, if I wasn’t following along and someone said the Pirates lost Joelvis Del Rosario, my response would be that I figured he was safe being that low in the minors, but I could convince myself as to why someone would pick him, while also saying I doubt he sticks. I would not have believed he was available on the minor league side. It wouldn’t have even come up as a question (meaning, was it on the big league side or minor league side?) That was something I needed to hear…then see written out, to make sure I heard it right…before I questioned their sanity.

PirateRican21

They are gonna trade Reynolds for a hoard of minor leaguers, so the space was needed.

Ethan Hullihen

Before reading anyone else’s response, I want to put this out there:

I wrote this around 11:30 last night, then proceeded to do dishes from midnight to 1ish, then finally got around to actually reading about the results, which I did until 2:45 (because I’m a crazy person).

Anyway, that’s to say I gained more information than I had when I wrote this scathing review (at least for me).

Cherington explained their thought process as to why they left so many spots–spots for picks, wanting to sign minor league free agents, possible outrights–and you have to do that so early (Nov. 15th) that you have to plan ahead as to what may happen between then and the draft.

Sulser left for overseas (did he have a spot at first?). Yajure, Park, Diaz, Sanchez were all designated and eventually went elsewhere and didn’t stick around. Nate Webb was signed to a minor league deal and presumably protected, but he was the only player signed to a minor league deal (other than Shawn Ross, who I doubt was protected). That’s more spots that were anticipated and ultimately left open.

Basically, Cherington is saying they had to plan for the moves they are allowed to make between setting the roster and the draft (the list goes away after the draft), but it seems the moves they were anticipating either fell through or just didn’t happen.

He still acknowledged they made mistakes and their process was likely going to be evaluated (for example, other teams had spots open, just not quite as many), so I think it’s still fair to criticize and question the thought process–especially not knowing the rules for selections–but the extra context probably would have softened my stance a tad.

There you go, another 100-200 words on the subject from me…

TNBucs

It’s a good point about Yajure, Park, Diaz, and Sanchez, all guys that they likely wanted to keep more than any minor leaguer they lost. That would have taken the AAA roster from 31 to 35 with only three open sports, right? That would have been a more reasonable number.

However, OTOH, are we missing something in evaluation if they expected most/all of those players to go unclaimed?

John Dreker

Their explanation didn’t make things any better for me. They would have still lost all of these guys and it was poor planning that led to that. They said they had spots for minor league guys, but those guys are available from now until April and signing them today would have zero affect on the Rule 5. If you see that much talent like we all did, you plan better for it. I don’t care that they lost guys like Solomon or Oliva, but those are the types of guys they’re talking about protecting, yet they didn’t protect those two players?

They lost 11 players because those players all had some type of interest about them, none of the picks are questionable in the sense that you wonder why they were picked. You can tell why they were picked. Usually the minor league Rule 5 are guys you shrug off. This year just went off the rails. It may amount to nothing, who knows, but it’s not something we should even be talking about the day after because it’s usually an afterthought minutes after it is done.

Wilbur Miller

Basically, the rest of MLB thought the Pirates had a bunch of interesting mid-level pitchers. Given a choice between 100-Loss Cherington’s judgment and the rest of MLB’s judgment, I’m going with the guys who don’t struggle to find position players who can hit .100.

AdministrativeSky236

Great info here but I love getting to read, fills in the picture much more to me. I appreciate that he’s willing to acknowledge mistakes and work to prevent them in the future

Bucs'N'Pucks (Jeff Reed)

That’s fine and all, but we’re talking about someone with over two decades in baseball ops lol

Tied to the same FO that had to go, “Oh shit, we need another arm for 2022 OD roster. Guess we gotta roster Roansy. Well, guess that means we also now have to further manipulate his service time during the year from having to burn service days to start the year. We’ll say he needs stretched out.”

leefieux

It took you over an hour to do dishes?? When was the last time you washed them? 😂😂😂

Ethan Hullihen

The exact time was probably closer to 11:50 to 12:30 ish, but then I had to take my dog out and other stuff that made reading closer to 1.

I treat dishes much like I do my spreadsheets–meticulously. They get cleaned thoroughly–I basically clean them of all residue on one side before washing on the other, then rinse/shake off very well. There were a bit of dishes, but it does just take me longer to do them.

My wife makes fun of me, but mine never need redone, but from time to time I find dirty dishes that she washed.

piratemike

Hell, just let the dog lick the plates.

Retire21

” ….but from time to time I find dirty dishes that she washed.” Just a suggestion, never ever mention that again.

roberto

As someone with a very meticulous wife and a farming sensibility, I recommend Retire21’s approach. Tell her that you love her and redo the dishes.

bianco599

Was it a big dinner requiring many pots and pans? I’m sitting at work starving and thinking about what my family will have tonight.
And do you point out to your wife that her dishes need to be redone?

JimEastTennessee

He’s a brave man  😲 (I have it good, I cook, she cleans…)

bianco599

That’s why I asked. That’s a battle I would never pick. I would be hearing smart a@$ remarks about it for the remainder of my life. Rather just eat a little left on crust.
My wife is an amazing cook and I wash a mean dish.

john_fluharty

If he complains too much about her washing then he’ll get the job for the rest of eternity.

leefieux

My only semi concern, as Jeff pointed out in the comments, is filling out rosters. But, losing this many players just means that we will either be aggressively promoting better players or signing roster filler, or both. We’ll be fine, imo.

As for their futures, until I saw that pic of Charle,I had no clue that he was Dominican. I thought he was just another dude out of some California HS or something.

k1rainey

It’s funny how long I’ll follow a prospect before i see I’ve pictured them as a different race. Fraizer and Scott I always imagined as white and black respectively. Same with Siani

john_fluharty

Yeah, and you have that ‘huh’ moment and have to replace your mental picture.

AdministrativeSky236

Good point from wilbur that each of these guys on their own in a long shot, but winning the lottery with several options is much more likely. Disappointed in how this was handled

Wilbur Miller

If they lost just a few of these guys, I’d say BFD. But as John pointed out yesterday, they essentially lost a pitching staff.

I’m sure you could go through everybody’s system at this point and find an unprotected pitcher who looks kinda interesting. Domingo has a good curve, McGough has very good control, Charle has that quirky second pitch, Jacques is a submariner, etc. But when you lose WAY more than everybody else, for no reason at all, it points to a management failure, just an unforced error.

And if the idea is that all these guys are disposable, why have a system with 160 or whatever players in the first place? Just operate a rookie level team and a AAA team, and nothing else.

Bucs'N'Pucks (Jeff Reed)

And to the fact that Greensboro just all around wasn’t good last year. I’m looking at your depth chart link, and oof. They’re going to need to basically mimic the Harrisburg Senators. Maybe John Nogowski wants to spend another year in Double-A. They’re going to have to force guys to Altoona that likely would’ve at least began in Greensboro for maybe a couple months. Throw in some struggles and eventual injuries, things could get ugly there.

Wilbur Miller

It was funny that BC’s excuse was, “We were going to sign MiL FAs (which we somehow forgot to do).” NOW they need to sign MiL FAs.
I think they just got occupied passing around Shelton’s latest gift bottle of Scotch.

Bucs'N'Pucks (Jeff Reed)

Yeah, I just love the continuous “we have complete intentions on doing things” quotes that have been flowing, while they continue to do…. very little, if anything much.

Wilbur Miller

They have the best words. Wonderful words. You’ll never find better words.

leefieux

Well, I think they easily could’ve protected more, but BC (who I still have doubts about his GMing ability) said that he was surprised how many were taken. THAT was surprising, tbh.
And THAT is the biggest concern in my house today. Is this a symptom of BC’s GM’ing ability?

1979andCounting

Graves and Sanders will be taking some heat internally. That’s who dropped the ball on the Milb portion.

leefieux

Are you saying it will be a Graves situation? 😸😸

AdministrativeSky236

I have been giving BC a ton of slack so far here and I have generally found some logic or reason to support many of his decisions, but this one leaves me puzzled

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